The riddles in Batman Forever

Started by The Laughing Fish, Thu, 20 Nov 2014, 11:35

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I keep forgetting what was the purpose of the Riddler having riddles in Batman Forever.  :-[

After Bruce rejects Nigma's brainscan device, Nigma becomes resentful and begins to leave riddles behind for Bruce to find...right? Unless I'm mistaken, all the riddles contained clues to Nigma's identity as a way to taunt Bruce. When Riddler discovers Bruce is Batman, he kidnaps Chase Meridian and keeps Bruce alive so he could discover Riddler's secret identity by solving all four riddles and finds the signal to the villains' secret base for one final confrontation. A confrontation which the villains planned that badly backfired on them.

Is this correct?  :-\ The strangest thing about the Riddler in this movie is his trademark MO comes across as an afterthought.
QuoteJonathan Nolan: He [Batman] has this one rule, as the Joker says in The Dark Knight. But he does wind up breaking it. Does he break it in the third film?

Christopher Nolan: He breaks it in...

Jonathan Nolan: ...the first two.

Source: http://books.google.com.au/books?id=uwV8rddtKRgC&pg=PR8&dq=But+he+does+wind+up+breaking+it.&hl=en&sa=X&ei

That's correct. I felt Bruce finding out his identity came out of nowhere.

Alfred Pennyworth: Not entirely unclever, sir, but what do a clock, a match, chess pawns, and vowels have in common? What do these riddles mean?

Bruce: Every riddle has a number in the question and they arrived at this order: 13, 1, 8, and 5.

Alfred: 13, 1, 8, and 5. What do they mean?

Bruce: Perhaps letters of the alphabet?

Alfred: Of course, 13 is M.

Bruce: 1 would be A, 8 would be H, and 5 would be E.

Alfred: M-A-H-E.

Bruce: Perhaps 1 and 8 are 18.

Alfred: 18 is R. M-R-E.

Bruce: How about Mr. E.?

Alfred: Mystery.

Bruce: And another name for mystery?

Alfred: Enigma.

Bruce: Mr. E. Nygma. Edward Nygma. Stickley's suicide was obviously a computer-generated forgery.

Alfred: You really are quite bright, despite what people say.

Quote from: Edd Grayson on Thu, 20 Nov  2014, 11:55
That's correct. I felt Bruce finding out his identity came out of nowhere.

Alfred Pennyworth: Not entirely unclever, sir, but what do a clock, a match, chess pawns, and vowels have in common? What do these riddles mean?

Bruce: Every riddle has a number in the question and they arrived at this order: 13, 1, 8, and 5.

Alfred: 13, 1, 8, and 5. What do they mean?

Bruce: Perhaps letters of the alphabet?

Alfred: Of course, 13 is M.

Bruce: 1 would be A, 8 would be H, and 5 would be E.

Alfred: M-A-H-E.

Bruce: Perhaps 1 and 8 are 18.

Alfred: 18 is R. M-R-E.

Bruce: How about Mr. E.?

Alfred: Mystery.

Bruce: And another name for mystery?

Alfred: Enigma.

Bruce: Mr. E. Nygma. Edward Nygma. Stickley's suicide was obviously a computer-generated forgery.

Alfred: You really are quite bright, despite what people say.

I just chalked it up to him being Batman lol

I love the riddles in the film. They are great props. Wonder were they ended up? Hopefully not the trash depository. I especially love how the clues all rhyme and I'm unsure if they've ever been constructed this way in the comics? Perhaps it would be too difficult on a regular basis. The riddles in the Sega Batman Forever video game also had a poem-like structure but much less successfully. Certainly not in a sing song manner.

One subtle little clue Batman seemed to miss to make things easier (or maybe internally he did notice being Batman and just never said) is that as the riddles go on through the course of the film they become larger, more elaborate and seemingly more expensive to produce. They start as a simple pop-up book like message and by the end one is encased in a lavish, gold casket complete with a 3D Riddler question mark symbol and mechanized features.

I always figured since Nygma becomes wealthier through his Nygmatech corp his new found money is being reflected in how his clues are produced and Batman would factor all that in too.

Riddler wanted to prove his dominance over Bruce in every way. The riddles were extremely cryptic, but still gave away his identity. I guess this was the part of the Riddler that wanted to show off his superior intellect, while at the same time acting compulsively and carrying out a task that is of no gain to him.

On a related note, the Batman Forever riddles are on the official Riddle Database (which I'm surprised is still up):
http://riddler.batbad.com/riddle_database/

Ok is there a way to reveal the answers without solving the puzzle? I can't solve most of them and I'm about to rip my hair out.

Riddler doesn't like cheating  ;)

Also, you'd probably have luck just Googling the answers; a lot of them were on the show

Quote from: Slash Man on Fri, 21 Nov  2014, 19:11
Riddler doesn't like cheating  ;)

He can kiss my ass. lol.

Quote

Also, you'd probably have luck just Googling the answers; a lot of them were on the show

So I have to type all that stuff out in Google. Gee. That is going to be so fun. Be back in 3 days, guys.

I'm not that good at those riddles from the show because English isn't my first language. Most of them rely on that. I still like them though.

The riddles were a very good gimmick, and I liked how Bruce cracked the clues to learn it was Nigma all along. But I do feel that they took a backseat to Riddler's creepy, stalker behavior.

This is why I think that the Arkham games have done an excellent job of coming up with Riddler challenges. The riddles stay true to the character's arrogance and amusing, obsessive behavior. The Riddler's Revenge side quest in Arkham City is something I'd like to see in live action one day. Can you imagine Batman narrowly avoiding booby traps and using his intellect to rescue hostages? It would make thrilling cinema.

Quote from: Cobblepot4Mayor on Thu, 20 Nov  2014, 16:51
I especially love how the clues all rhyme and I'm unsure if they've ever been constructed this way in the comics? Perhaps it would be too difficult on a regular basis. The riddles in the Sega Batman Forever video game also had a poem-like structure but much less successfully. Certainly not in a sing song manner.

I remember that game. It was so mediocre that I didn't even pay attention to those riddles. And yet I used to play it all the time.  :-[

The difficulty of coming up with riddle ideas possibly explains why the Riddler made very few appearances in The Animated Series.
QuoteJonathan Nolan: He [Batman] has this one rule, as the Joker says in The Dark Knight. But he does wind up breaking it. Does he break it in the third film?

Christopher Nolan: He breaks it in...

Jonathan Nolan: ...the first two.

Source: http://books.google.com.au/books?id=uwV8rddtKRgC&pg=PR8&dq=But+he+does+wind+up+breaking+it.&hl=en&sa=X&ei