The Dark Knight Comic Book Influences (SPOILERS)

[DarkVengeance]

But, why are people saying that TDK is more closer to the comics when this forum has proved Batman 89 is more closer?

What are you that lazy? You can keep feeling safe in your copy and pasted question that you keep posting. The truth is, you just really dont know what your talking about and NEVER use facts or references to your statements, what are the rest of us supposed to read your mind? Thats someplace that sounds quite boring anyways!!

[batass4880]

But, why are people saying that TDK is more closer to the comics when this forum has proved Batman 89 is more closer?

The Nolan films are closer in that they are sticking to the scripts of the comics and evolution of the characters.

I think that B89 as well as the other three original movies are closer to the look and basic mythology of the Batman characters. When they got the basic foundation of the characters, they did whatever they wanted with the scripts to make a movie they thought would work for audiences and not necessarily fans of the comic book. For example:

JOKER--They had him the murderer of Bruce's parents and gave him the profile of a gangster and not the Red Hood or a comedian. But, he was still the Joker in that he had a frozen smile, was stained white, had a sick and black sense of humor, would taunt Batman, broadcast his plans over the airwaves, was a prankster at times but was still an evil and cold-blooded killer that killed people with his Smilex chemical or just shot, stabbed or electrocuted his victims.

PENGUIN--They had him as a sideshow freak other than a privileged gentleman of crime, but he still was short, fat, nasty, had an arsenal of umbrellas, loved birds/penguins, came from a rich background and loved to eat raw fish! (I just wish that he wore his monocle through most of the film!) 

CATWOMAN--They had her not as a cold blooded cat burglar but as a renegade who was taking out her frustrations on the city. But, she still carried a whip, had sharp claws to draw blood and would fight/flirt with Batman.

[Joker81]

But, why are people saying that TDK is more closer to the comics when this forum has proved Batman 89 is more closer?

The Nolan films are closer in that they are sticking to the scripts of the comics and evolution of the characters.

I think that B89 as well as the other three original movies are closer to the look and basic mythology of the Batman characters. When they got the basic foundation of the characters, they did whatever they wanted with the scripts to make a movie they thought would work for audiences and not necessarily fans of the comic book. For example:

JOKER--They had him the murderer of Bruce's parents and gave him the profile of a gangster and not the Red Hood or a comedian. But, he was still the Joker in that he had a frozen smile, was stained white, had a sick and black sense of humor, would taunt Batman, broadcast his plans over the airwaves, was a prankster at times but was still an evil and cold-blooded killer that killed people with his Smilex chemical or just shot, stabbed or electrocuted his victims.

PENGUIN--They had him as a sideshow freak other than a privileged gentleman of crime, but he still was short, fat, nasty, had an arsenal of umbrellas, loved birds/penguins, came from a rich background and loved to eat raw fish! (I just wish that he wore his monocle through most of the film!) 

CATWOMAN--They had her not as a cold blooded cat burglar but as a renegade who was taking out her frustrations on the city. But, she still carried a whip, had sharp claws to draw blood and would fight/flirt with Batman.

Well to be honest this is the problem I have, and I just want to make clear I am a fan of Batman and The Drak Knight.

People have bashed the Joker (recently) in Batman 89. But the way I see it is the Joker is more true to the comics in Batman than The Dark Knight.

BATMAN: He wasnt the red hood or a comedian, because that whole idea was ridiculas. He had a back story, known as Jack napier - a ruthless gangster. Jack gets betrayed by his closed allies, gets dropped into a vat of chemicals, just like the comics, by batman. He emerges as the Joker, insane, and wrecks havoc on the ones he feels responsable for his accident (Grissom, Alicia, other gang members, Batman and Gotham in general).
The Joker in Batman to me feels like the Joker from the comics, he looks like him dresses like him, acts like him. Even Alex Ross said that the origin of the Joker in Batman was much more believable than the comics and The Killing Joke.

THE DARK KNIGHT: Someone posted before that the Joker in TDK had little depth. I tend to agree with them. In TDK we dont get an origin story, infact we know almost nothing about the Joker. He is just there. Now this is obviously the point for this movie. He is scared with a chelsea smile and wears white make-up. To me though, the whole Joker origin story has been re-wrote here, altering the mythos. Its not close to the comics at all.

My point being is it seems ok to nit-pick Batman's 1989 movie, but when it comes to TDK it seems everyone turns a blind eye to its flaws, and its unfaithfullness to the comics regarding character development, motivation and plot. Another character's origin story that TDK fiddle with is Two-Face.

TWO-FACE IN THE EARLY COMICS: In the comics was scared by Moroni in court with acid while hes trying to convict him. The two faced coin was Moroni's and Harvey Dent was using it as evidents against Moroni. He does't die i the comics either. Bruce Wayne is a friend of Harvey's they grew up together. Rachel is also not his love interest.

TWO-FACE IN TDK: Harvey Dent is scared by the Joker, in an over elaborite plot to kill Rachel, hence drving Batman insane. He is not scared by acid, but burned by fuel. The two faced coin was his fathers given to him. He becomes unresentful and brief friends with Bruce Wayne, when he meets him throught his girlfriend Rachel.

These are the problems I have when I go on this site and read people bashing Batman 89's so called inaccrucies. TDK is plentyful of them.

I think its about time that we as Batman fans stop all the cr4p, and just enjoy the movies Burton and Nolan has gave us. They are not perfect films, but enjoyable and well acted flicks. And its great we have two different versions to watch. What people have to remember is movies are different than comics, and things have to be changed to sell and tell stories on the silver screen.
Look at some of the biggest blockbusting films based on novels. A lot of these movies are totally different than the novels. This is because of the movie making process.

Batman films are for everyone to enjoy, not just Batman fans.

[DarkVengeance]

Im a true batman fan, I dont really give a crap what a non-fan says about the films or their opinions on them. Thats always been my opinion, but I understand YES a film is for EVERYONE to enjoy, but when people come up to me trying to tell me things about the characters and film, I just laugh at them, and say "You have no clue what your talking about" because they damn well dont.

[Joker81]

And your point is?

My point is that the $500m dollors TDK made was not through just Batman fans going to watch it.

So in the end it doesnt matter what fans think either. Filmmaking is a business and people vote with their feet and the millions that flocked to see this movie, and Batman in 1989. They dont care about inaccurisies of the movies compared to the comics. They go to the cinema to be entertained and for escapism for 2 hours.

Thats what TDK gave them and that is what Batman gave them 19 years ago.

[DarkVengeance]

And your point is?

My point is that the $500m dollors TDK made was not through just Batman fans going to watch it.

So in the end it doesnt matter what fans think either. Filmmaking is a business and people vote with their feet and the millions that flocked to see this movie, and Batman in 1989. They dont care about inaccurisies of the movies compared to the comics. They go to the cinema to be entertained and for escapism for 2 hours.

Thats what TDK gave them and that is what Batman gave them 19 years ago.

My point is that regular non bat-fans opinions on ANYTHING Batman related, DOES NOT MATTER TO ME!! Thats about it, I know film, I know film industry and I get what your saying, Batman is just something very close to my heart, so im very touchy about all of it!

[BatmAngelus]

And Silver Nemesis, up above, strikes again with another great post.

The dead Batman thing also carried into John Byrne's comic story The Many Deaths of Batman.
The entire first chapter had no dialogue as we saw the discovery of Batman's corpse, people's attempt to save him, the villains' reactions to the news of his death (sadly none from Joker, but a fun scene does have Two-Face flipping a coin to decide how to feel), and then Gordon going up to the corpse and unmasking it...revealing to us that it is not Bruce Wayne.
The chapter then ended with yet another dead Batman on the top of a building, which blows up.

[BatmAngelus]

Steve Englehart on The Dark Knight:
http://www.steveenglehart.com/Film/Dark%20Knight%20movie.html

For those who have not read the comic he is referring to:
Dark Detective was a return to comics from Steve Englehart and Marshall Rogers in 2005.  Englehart later dubbed it Dark Detective II and his original arc with Rogers (previously collected in the book Strange Apparitions) became Dark Detective I. 

In the 2005 storyline, Silver St. Cloud returns to Bruce's life.  She was his former girlfriend who found out about his alter ego and because of Batman, she broke it off with Bruce.  In the story arc, she dates politician Evan Gregory, who is running for Governor.  Joker crashes the campaign party, however, and tries to "compete" in the election against Gregory.

There is pretty much a love triangle story among the three- Bruce, Silver, and Evan.

Eventually, Joker captures Silver.  Evan turns to Bruce and essentially, Batman and Evan go after the Joker to find her in Joker's booby-trapped headquarters.  Batman saves her.  Evan, however, literally loses his right arm and leg due to the Joker's booby traps.

And apparently more was planned for the character and storyline...

[thecolorsblend]

I knew about the B89 similarities.  Everybody does.  But really, they come from what was originally intended to be an adaptation of his work.  From the way Englehart phrases it, you'd think his DD2 ideas were outright stolen by TDK's production staff.  Dunno what to think of that...

[BatmAngelus]

Yeah, same here. 

On one hand, I think he's exaggerating a bit to say that his Dark Detective story was "the basis" for The Dark Knight and there are parts where I think he is giving himself too much credit for his Batman work.

On the other hand, I do think the Harvey Dent story in The Dark Knight is closer to the Evan Gregory story than the comic book versions of the Two-Face origin (not that that's a terrible thing.  After all, it worked for the movie).  Plus the Aaron Eckhart resemblance is a bit eerie.

If anything, though, it's another possible comic influence to add to this list.