Marvel's Daredevil (Netflix)

[riddler]

For marvels first attempt at an actual super hero comic series since the MCU I felt they did well.

They showed how they can be dark while still embracing the comics.

Elden Henson and Deborah ann wolf worked well together.

My only complaint if you could call it that is I felt they exhausted too many important plot points including killing important characters in the first season and I'm not sure how many they have left in the tank.

The avengers references were kept to a minimum; mainly that super heroes and aliens exist and that New York had been decimated.

[The Laughing Fish]

New trailer of the upcoming second season is out now.

It may not be the best trailer cut I've ever seen, but it does a good enough of showing us how the Punisher perceives Daredevil.

Can't wait to binge watch this.

[Silver Nemesis]

The new trailer drops tomorrow. In the meantime, here are some other promotional items for season 2.

This first one's inspired by Saint Sebastian's martyrdom, echoing Matt and Claire's conversation about saints and martyrs during the first season.

This next one's inspired by Caravaggio's 'Saint Jerome Writing'.

[The Joker]

The first season was aces, can't wait to check out Season 2. 

[Silver Nemesis]

As far as I'm concerned, DD season 1 set a new standard for dark/serious live action superhero adaptations. This may sound like hyperbole, but I honestly feel it surpassed any of the 'dark' Batman films. I watched it three times within the first month of its release, including once over the first weekend, and I've watched it several more times since. I thought my enthusiasm might wane after the hype died down, but it's only increased.

Presently I'm more excited about DD season 2 than I am about Batman v Superman or any other comic book movie this year. If season 2 is even remotely as good as season 1, I'll be happy. If it matches the quality of season 1, I'll be impressed. If it surpasses season 1.... then my mind will be blown.

[Silver Nemesis]

And here's the new trailer!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=HajTZqgyjz4

[Azrael]

As far as I'm concerned, DD season 1 set a new standard for dark/serious live action superhero adaptations. This may sound like hyperbole, but I honestly feel it surpassed any of the 'dark' Batman films. I watched it three times within the first month of its release, including once over the first weekend, and I've watched it several more times since. I thought my enthusiasm might wane after the hype died down, but it's only increased.

Presently I'm more excited about DD season 2 than I am about Batman v Superman or any other comic book movie this year. If season 2 is even remotely as good as season 1, I'll be happy. If it matches the quality of season 1, I'll be impressed. If it surpasses season 1.... then my mind will be blown.

I'd like to ask you as an expert on DD comics, and since you mentioned Nolan's films. Do you think his very concept lends itself much better to a "grounded" approach compared to Batman?

[Silver Nemesis]

Here's another version of the trailer, this time without the subtitles.

I'm calling it now – the hooded figure at the 1:52 mark is the resurrected Nobu. They'll reveal his name's Kirigi or Kagenobu, and that maybe he's a member of Snakeroot. And the 'rising' could well be the summoning of the Beast. Maybe this season will end on a cliffhanger, with Matt being possessed and assuming control of the Hand. Then The Defenders miniseries could be an adaptation of Shadowland.

And the new mask is a massive improvement over the old one. I liked the costume from the first season, but the mask was my one complaint. This one looks perfect.

I'd like to ask you as an expert on DD comics, and since you mentioned Nolan's films. Do you think his very concept lends itself much better to a "grounded" approach compared to Batman?

That's a good question, Nycteris, and one I've thought about quite a bit. On the surface, you'd think Batman would lend itself better to the grounded approach. After all, the central plot of DD season 1 predicated upon the economic fallout resulting from the Chitauri invasion in The Avengers. It's hard to imagine an alien invasion occurring in the Nolanverse. Ultimately they're both perfectly legitimate adaptations of their respective source materials, and in both cases they preserved the essence of the titular hero intact. But Daredevil definitely sticks closer to the comics and makes far fewer concessions to 'realism' than Nolan's films.

Don't get me wrong, I think what Nolan did with his trilogy was fantastic. But he did strip away numerous aspects of the mythology to make the material conform to his vision. And in the context of his films, it worked. But in the case of Daredevil there really aren't that many deviations from the comics. The only two major changes were the toning down of Owlsley and the death of a certain main character. Other than that, it's pretty much spot on with the source material.

Batman is more sci-fi oriented than Daredevil and involves lots of high-tech gadgets and vehicles. Batman's also central to a wider cast of colourful supporting characters, not to mention a member of the JLA. In order to keep it grounded, Nolan had to cut most of that stuff out. So did Burton for that matter. But Daredevil doesn't have many gadgets and he doesn't pilot any over-the-top vehicles. He's just a street level vigilante operating out of a real area of New York (or San Francisco, depending on which era of the comics we're talking about). Daredevil mostly operates alone. He's worked with other heroes like Black Widow and Luke Cage, and in the current run by Charles Soule he's even taken on a sidekick named Blind Spot. But none of those characters are as fantastical as Superman or Wonder Woman. So although Daredevil does occasionally hang out with the likes of Spider-Man and his ilk, he mostly keeps the company of other street level vigilantes.

I think the Charlie Cox Daredevil is sufficiently close to the comic book version that they're more or less interchangeable. They're physically very similar, they move and fight the same, they possess the same abilities and skills, the same morality, philosophy, personality, etc. I can't honestly say that about any of the recent live action incarnations of Batman. They all display aspects of the Modern Age Batman from the comics, but none embody the character 100%. The versions from Batman: The Animated Series and the Arkham games are perfect translations of the Modern Age Batman, and Adam West's Batman was every bit as interchangeable with the Silver Age comic book version. But Keaton, Kilmer, Clooney and Bale? Not so much.

Once again, I'm not dissing the Batman films. I think they're great. But they present versions of Batman rather than literal adaptations. They're still Batman, just not the comic version. Whereas the MCU Daredevil is so close to the comic version that they may as well be the same guy. And Marvel/Netflix achieved that without any significant dilution of the character or his abilities. So despite the fact Matt Murdock possesses superhuman senses and Bruce Wayne doesn't, I do think the former character is better suited to the gritty/realistic approach than the latter. Because at the end of the day the Daredevil comics are mostly gritty and grounded, while the tone of the Batman comics is based more on a hybridisation of grittiness, sci-fi and fantasy.

[BatmAngelus]

The second season does look more comic book oriented, with Elektra, The Hand, and the Punisher.

I confess, I've only read The Man Without Fear when it comes to the Elektra stories. I really need to read the original Miller run.

When it comes to the Punisher, I have the whole Punisher Year One arc as well as a collection of Punisher's first appearances. I imagine these will come in handy when it comes to doing the comic book influences on the show. They're obviously adapting the part from Welcome Back Frank where he chains Matt up, but since the show's covering his origin too, I'm curious what their take will be.

[Silver Nemesis]

I confess, I've only read The Man Without Fear when it comes to the Elektra stories. I really need to read the original Miller run.

Get the Miller/Janson Omnibus. You'll love it.

I feel very nostalgic about The Man Without Fear, mainly because I had all the original issues as a kid back in the nineties (which I unfortunately sold as a teenager). But re-reading the TPB edition now, I have a problem with the way Miller depicted Elektra. Admittedly I'm not the biggest Elektra fan to begin with. 'The Elektra Saga' was a great storyline, but as far as female love interest/villains go, Typhoid Mary is far more compelling. I rank Typhoid as my second favourite Daredevil villain after Bullseye. Elektra would be much lower on the list.

The main problem I have with the way she's portrayed in TMWF is that it totally undermines her character arc. When Miller first depicted her origin in Daredevil Vol 1 #168, he portrayed her as an ordinary college girl. Then her father dies and she disappears, only to return about a decade later as a coldblooded assassin. It was a shocking turn of events that made you question what transpired during the intervening years to change her so drastically.

But in The Man Without Fear, Miller's revisionist approach portrays the college-age Elektra as a bloodthirsty sadist from the get go; a coldblooded murderer hearing voices in her head telling her to kill. It eliminates the more innocent, vulnerable side of her personality and rewrites her character arc so she was always a killer. The shocking contrast between before her father was killed and afterwards is totally lost.

When it comes to the Punisher, I have the whole Punisher Year One arc as well as a collection of Punisher's first appearances. I imagine these will come in handy when it comes to doing the comic book influences on the show. They're obviously adapting the part from Welcome Back Frank where he chains Matt up, but since the show's covering his origin too, I'm curious what their take will be.

I own all the Daredevil/Punisher crossovers – including Welcome Back, Frank – but beyond that I don't have many Punisher comics. I certainly haven't read Year One. So when it comes to the analysis I'll appreciate any help you can offer. I'll be fine on the Daredevil and Elektra references, but the Punisher material is where I'll need assistance.