Marvel's Daredevil (Netflix)

Started by Silver Nemesis, Thu, 31 Jul 2014, 17:11

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Tue, 5 Jul 2016, 18:14 #60 Last Edit: Tue, 8 May 2018, 22:34 by Silver Nemesis
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue,  5 Jul  2016, 04:02
Matt Murdock is frequently written as a man who isn't as evil as his heart wants him to be... but isn't as virtuous as his soul would like. The push and pull creates a fascinating internal conflict. He wants to be better than he is while at the same time he isn't as bad as he'd like to be.

I may get lynched for saying this, but I've always thought Matt Murdock was a more complex, layered and interesting character than Bruce Wayne. Wayne is interesting, don't get me wrong. But the majority of his most intriguing qualities are also present in Murdock. And Murdock has many fascinating contradictory qualities besides those.

He's a dedicated lawyer by day, and yet he breaks the law every night when he dons his vigilante gear. He's a devout Catholic, and yet he disguises himself in the image of the devil. He's completely blind, and yet he perceives the world around him with far greater acuity than any sighted person. There was an interesting story arc by J.M. DeMatteis in 1995 where Matt suffered an identity crisis triggered in part by these paradoxical components of his multifaceted character. It demonstrated how fragile his psychological equilibrium is while all these conflicting impulses are competing in the balance.


With a character this complex and layered, the makers of the TV show could be forgiven for leaving a few things out. But perhaps their greatest achievement lies in how comprehensively and accurately they've adapted Matt into live action. They've managed to nail his characterisation with all its contradictions and complexities intact. For me, Cox's Daredevil is tied with Reeve's Superman as my favourite live action representation of a comic book superhero. They literally couldn't have done a better job.

While Bruce Wayne is an intellectually and physically idealised billionaire, Matt Murdock is a more down-to-earth bloke from a real neighbourhood of a real city, with a clearly defined ethnic background, a full time job, a religion, a physical disability, and a screwed-up personal life involving mostly ordinary people. He comes across as more flawed and real than most comic book heroes. And despite the darkness and violence surrounding the world he inhabits, Matt himself has never been a cynic or a nihilist. He's a good man who sees the best in people. Even at his lowest ebb, when he was homeless and unemployed, he still found a way to help others and be happy. There's something uplifting and inspirational about that. It's not the sort of thing you'd necessarily expect from one of the darker super heroes.

As for the future of the show, here are two things I'm predicting will happen in season 3:

1)   Bullseye. I don't think they can put him off any longer. If Fisk is Daredevil's Ra's al Ghul, then Bullseye is his Joker. He's the other arch nemesis, and the one for whom Matt harbours the most intense personal hatred. Fisk will probably hire him to break Daredevil physically. His presence may also signal the end of the road for Karen Page, though I'm hoping her storyline will play out differently in the TV series than it did in the comics.

2)    'Born Again'. The best Daredevil comic ever written (and IMO Frank Miler's magnum opus). The pieces were clearly being put in place during season 2: the dream sequence where Sister Maggie tends Matt's wounds at the start of episode 3, Fisk growing suspicious of Matt in episode 10, Karen learning Daredevil's true identity in episode 13 – all things that could lead into 'Born Again'.

Season 1 was basically Miller's 'The Man Without Fear' mixed with the 'Gang War' and 'The Fall of the Kingpin' arcs. Season 2 was the Elektra saga mixed with Garth Ennis' Punisher MAX and the numerous Daredevil vs. Punisher crossover stories (I'm hoping to post the first part of the season 2 comic analysis soon). Season 3 should be a mixture of 'Born Again' and the best of the Bullseye stories. It's possible they might also incorporate elements of 'Lone Stranger' or 'Guardian Devil' if the rumours about Mephisto appearing in The Defenders turn out to be true.

I assumed The Defenders season 1 would be a loose adaptation of Shadowland. Only in light of the events from Daredevil season 2, I'd imagine Elektra would be the Hand's demonic super weapon instead of Matt. Now I'm wondering if they'll merge the Beast and Mephisto into a single character; if Mephisto is the Black Sky demon the Hand have been trying to conjure into Elektra's body. Then again, the rumours about Mephisto appearing could be hogwash.

Looking really far ahead to Daredevil season 4, and assuming they do tackle 'Born Again' in season 3, then it would be logical to follow it up with adaptations of either Ann Nocenti's Typhoid Mary arc or Brian Michael Bendis' 'Out' storyline. But now I'm getting really far ahead of myself.

Here's an interesting featurette showing how the martial arts sequences are staged. Philip Silvera, the main fight coordinator on this show, also choreographed the fight scenes in Deadpool and the Arkham games. That guy's top of his league.



Only 2 Emmy nominations for Daredevil this year:

•   Outstanding Sound Editing For A Series
•   Outstanding Stunt Coordination For A Drama Series, Limited Series Or Movie

Bet you anything it doesn't win either.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 14 Jul  2016, 19:28Bet you anything it doesn't win either.
Considering Hollyweird politics, yeah, I don't see Daredevil winning that stuff.

Here's a superb video analysis of Daredevil's philosophical themes. I'd love to see more videos like this analysing each of the Batman films.


I do however have a few quibbles. Firstly, the line about Daredevil being a Batman rip-off. I wrote an entire article on this subject a few months ago, so I won't go over it again now. But suffice it to say the statement is incorrect: http://www.batman-online.com/features/2016/3/17/batman-to-hells-kitchen-and-back-the-daredevil-connection#sthash.e28HqbIN.dpbs

Secondly, Daredevil did not 'kill' Nobu. At worst Matt could be blamed for immolating him during their first encounter, though the circumstances were ambiguous and desperate. The next two times Daredevil 'killed' Nobu, he already knew his opponent would survive. Ultimately it was Stick who killed Nobu, not Daredevil. On the extremely rare occasions Daredevil's used lethal force in the comics, it's either been by accident (e.g. knocking Mary Walker out of a window in The Man Without Fear), against supernatural/demonic beings who aren't so much 'alive' as 'undead' (e.g. the Hand), or in situations where it was an unavoidable measure to prevent the further loss of innocent life (e.g. shooting down Nuke's helicopter in Born Again). But so far the MCU Daredevil has never killed anyone.

Thirdly, I think they could have said something about the conflict between moral relativism and moral absolutism in season 1. Fisk and Matt both want to improve Hell's Kitchen, but they have very different ways of going about it. Fisk is willing to tolerate the existence of crime and even profit from it, just as long as he can consolidate the various underworld organisations into a single entity and control them. He'll allow narcotics and human trafficking to continue, but he'll isolate them from the ordinary people and invest the ill-gotten profits towards urban redevelopment. For Fisk, the noble ends justify the criminal means. By contrast, Murdock is a moral absolutist who refuses to compromise his ethics. To him, all crime must be stamped out. None of it can be tolerated. Fisk sees himself as morally superior to the other criminals he controls, but to Daredevil Fisk is just another lowlife hood. I think this is an interesting moral contrast that would have been worth highlighting in the video.


I'm coming back to this.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Tue,  5 Jul  2016, 18:14I may get lynched for saying this, but I've always thought Matt Murdock was a more complex, layered and interesting character than Bruce Wayne. Wayne is interesting, don't get me wrong. But the majority of his most intriguing qualities are also present in Murdock. And Murdock has many fascinating contradictory qualities besides those.

He's a dedicated lawyer by day, and yet he breaks the law every night when he dons his vigilante gear. He's a devout Catholic, and yet he disguises himself in the image of the devil. He's completely blind, and yet he perceives the world around him with far greater acuity than any sighted person. There was an interesting story arc by J.M. DeMatteis in 1995 where Matt suffered an identity crisis triggered in part by these paradoxical components of his multifaceted character. It demonstrated how fragile his psychological equilibrium is while all these conflicting impulses are competing in the balance.
As you say, he's a devout Catholic. Someone as religious as he is would see his own actions as morally repugnant. And they are. Catholic theology is relatively black and white. By any standard, he's violating his own belief system by doing what he does as Daredevil.

I believe on some level Murdock is disgusted with his own actions. He sees them as evil on some level. I don't think it's an accident that his alias and iconography revolve around evil and the demonic. It's how he sees the things he does. Yes, there are positive ramifications for many of his actions. But, at the risk of beating the religious thing to death, in Catholicism the ends don't justify the means.

The part of him that attends Mass every week routinely rebels against the part of him that puts on a mask and brutalizes people. It's a fascinating internal conflict. To my knowledge, it's found nowhere else in comics. Daredevil is unique.

As with Wayne, it didn't have to be this way. Bruce could've become a police officer if he wanted to fight crime. He could've bought his way into the mayor's office, the governor's office or even the Oval Office if he wanted to fight corruption. He didn't have to become Batman if his only objective was doing the right thing.

Murdock, for his part, could've become a police officer. Joined the FBI. Joined SHIELD. Done lots of things. But he too chose a different path.

The key difference as I see it is Bruce believes he's doing the right thing. He's not troubled with the nuances of religious morality. If Bruce is religious (which I personally doubt), clearly his conscience isn't troubling him.

Murdock KNOWS he's doing the wrong thing. But he can't stop doing it. The press calls him a hero but he has a very different estimation of himself, I think.

In brief, Daredevil is awesome!

confirmed; season 3 is on its way!

Fri, 22 Jul 2016, 17:28 #68 Last Edit: Tue, 8 May 2018, 22:35 by Silver Nemesis
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 21 Jul  2016, 22:56
As you say, he's a devout Catholic. Someone as religious as he is would see his own actions as morally repugnant. And they are. Catholic theology is relatively black and white. By any standard, he's violating his own belief system by doing what he does as Daredevil.

I believe on some level Murdock is disgusted with his own actions. He sees them as evil on some level. I don't think it's an accident that his alias and iconography revolve around evil and the demonic. It's how he sees the things he does. Yes, there are positive ramifications for many of his actions. But, at the risk of beating the religious thing to death, in Catholicism the ends don't justify the means.

The part of him that attends Mass every week routinely rebels against the part of him that puts on a mask and brutalizes people. It's a fascinating internal conflict. To my knowledge, it's found nowhere else in comics. Daredevil is unique.

As with Wayne, it didn't have to be this way. Bruce could've become a police officer if he wanted to fight crime. He could've bought his way into the mayor's office, the governor's office or even the Oval Office if he wanted to fight corruption. He didn't have to become Batman if his only objective was doing the right thing.

Murdock, for his part, could've become a police officer. Joined the FBI. Joined SHIELD. Done lots of things. But he too chose a different path.

The key difference as I see it is Bruce believes he's doing the right thing. He's not troubled with the nuances of religious morality. If Bruce is religious (which I personally doubt), clearly his conscience isn't troubling him.

Murdock KNOWS he's doing the wrong thing. But he can't stop doing it. The press calls him a hero but he has a very different estimation of himself, I think.

In brief, Daredevil is awesome!

Doctor Strange concurs.


I think a lot of the time Matt's more violent actions can be mitigated by the principle of double effect as outlined by Thomas Aquinas; the concept that an unavoidable evil may be permissible provided the evil itself is not the desired outcome, but rather a necessary step towards a greater good. I recall Frank Miller saying in an interview that Matt was driven by a desire to do good rather than a desire to punish wrong, which is essentially what sets him apart from Frank Castle. Miller also commented on the violence and anger inherent in the Daredevil character, speculating that their origin might stem from his frustration over being blind or possibly from his father. Either way, 'the devil' in him is constantly at war with the saint. Two contrasting impulses vying for supremacy, and Matt is fully aware of the conflict.

Unlike Bruce Wayne, who can rationalise the most irrational behaviour to convince himself what he's doing makes sense, Matt can never fully shake off his self-doubt and moral awareness. He's not insane and he knows when he's doing something wrong. When Batman crosses a line, he just forgets about it and moves on. When Daredevil does it, he has to acknowledge the transgression and confess the sin. He knows when he's breaking the laws of God and man (he holds both in the highest esteem), but he'll do it anyway if he deems it necessary.


That element of moral self-consciousness is something you just don't get with other superheroes. It shows that Matt, according to his own belief system, is jeopardising far more than just his liberty when he puts on his mask. He's risking his very soul.

The conflict comes across particularly well in the TV show during his conversations with Claire and Foggy. Despite being a skilled lawyer, a master of rhetoric and apologetics, he can never fully defend his own position against his friends' criticisms. He constantly tries to justify his crusade, but the weaknesses in his arguments are repeatedly exposed. He's a flawed complex man whose life hangs in a delicate state of equilibrium. But that's one of the things that makes him such a great character, as well as a great hero.

Quote from: riddler on Fri, 22 Jul  2016, 14:26
confirmed; season 3 is on its way!


Here's the season 3 announcement teaser:


It's hard to imagine them topping the first two seasons, but with 'Born Again' and Bullseye they just might do it. It's a pity it probably won't get released until 2018. But at least we've got The Defenders to tide us over in the meantime.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Fri, 22 Jul  2016, 17:28


It's hard to imagine them topping the first two seasons, but with 'Born Again' and Bullseye they just might do it. It's a pity it probably won't get released until 2018. But at least we've got The Defenders to tide us over in the meantime.

I haven't seen season 2 (believe me I will I've just been super busy) but if the delay allows for more development I'm all for it.