Adam Savage prefers BR over 89

[Furstmobile]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0KEG9JYCYc

(He's the MythBuster that doesn't wear the stupid hat) They start comparing Batman and Brazil around 18:17

He's says he has a strong dislike of 89, both from an effects standpoint and as a movie. He cites the infamous scene where Joker shoots down the Batwing with his long-barreled gun, saying he "never wanted slapstick out of Batman." Then, he starts up a little about how amazing Batman Returns is, calling DeVito "one of the greatest Batman villains ever." Unfortunately, the catch themselves and go back to Blade Runner right they begin to start praising BR.

This is the first time I've seen someone like this speak so matter-of-factly about BR being obviously better than 89. I also find it amusing that he's so bothered by the long-barreled pistol, when I can think three or four of the lowest points of BR that are definitely more embarrassing than that. (The Penguin's miniature Batmobile "ride" he sat in while he controlled the real Batmobile immediately comes to mind)

[riddler]

So he doesn't like the clown prince of crime using tricks and gags? I wonder how he felt about Ledgers pencil trick?


I liked returns as a dark fairly tale; like any fairy tale things don't need to be explained but if he finds the joker shooting down the batwing unbelievable shouldn't he hate the penguin as a walking talking plot hole;

-lives 33 years in the sewers without anyone knowing he was there?
-somehow learned english (and various other skills) while being raised by Penguins?
-developed gagetry in the sewers which hadn't been built on land?
-again why is the sewer such a mysterious place? It's known he's under the gotham zoo, why do no officers attempt to go down there once he starts committing crimes, especially kidnapping children? Or why do no ambitious press types such as Knox attempt to blow the lid off the Penguin myth?

[The Dark Knight]

I disagree with Adam's points about B89, but glad to see him enjoy BR.

-somehow learned english (and various other skills) while being raised by Penguins?

The circus gang were down there with him - why do people miss this point?

-developed gagetry in the sewers which hadn't been built on land?

Again, the circus gang were with him.

-again why is the sewer such a mysterious place? It's known he's under the gotham zoo, why do no officers attempt to go down there once he starts committing crimes, especially kidnapping children? Or why do no ambitious press types such as Knox attempt to blow the lid off the Penguin myth?

A few reasons, but mostly because he's a myth. People only really believe it to be reality when he saves the mayor's baby.

[riddler]

I disagree with Adam's points about B89, but glad to see him enjoy BR.

-somehow learned english (and various other skills) while being raised by Penguins?

The circus gang were down there with him - why do people miss this point?

-developed gagetry in the sewers which hadn't been built on land?

Again, the circus gang were with him.

-again why is the sewer such a mysterious place? It's known he's under the gotham zoo, why do no officers attempt to go down there once he starts committing crimes, especially kidnapping children? Or why do no ambitious press types such as Knox attempt to blow the lid off the Penguin myth?

A few reasons, but mostly because he's a myth. People only really believe it to be reality when he saves the mayor's baby.

Are there no sewer workers that would go down there and see what is going on?

[The Dark Knight]

Are there no sewer workers that would go down there and see what is going on?

The myth angle which the film presents really is the heart of it. Perhaps people did go down there to check the place out, and maybe they didn't come back out alive. Ultimately, the sewer became an urban legend. A ghost story to tell around the campfire. As the newspaper headline read: Man or myth or something worse?

If that explanation is too simple for some, I say it's a lot easier to buy in the context of the Burtonverse. He didn't try and explain every last detail. Things were what they were, take it or leave it. The imagery and themes took precedence.

[The Laughing Fish]

You know, sometimes I hear this kind of reasoning from people who prefer Returns to '89 and it doesn't make much sense to me. I think Returns has its share of slapsick cutesy humour as the first i.e. Batman putting the explosive dynamite in the strongman's pants and smiling at him till he knocks him out. Let's not forget the poodle - walking to a restaurant with a grenade in its mouth and catching the batarang with its teeth. 

[The Dark Knight]

You know, sometimes I hear this kind of reasoning from people who prefer Returns to '89 and it doesn't make much sense to me. I think Returns has its share of slapsick cutesy humour as the first i.e. Batman putting the explosive dynamite in the strongman's pants and smiling at him till he knocks him out. Let's not forget the poodle - walking to a restaurant with a grenade in its mouth and catching the batarang with its teeth. 

Yes, Burton's humour is present in both films, and I'm glad. I think people have an obsession over 'pure darkness'. A film which is so dark and gritty so it can't be attacked as 'cheesy' or 'silly'. There's a balance to be had, and it was struck in B89 and BR for my money. That's why they are so re-watchable.

[Edd Grayson]

I can't make up my mind. They're both classics. I used to like Batman more and watched it many times until I knew almost every line by heart, then I started appreciating Returns more. Each time I watch the end of either of them I wish we had at least two more movies in the same vein. They're two of my favortie movies, and not just because they have Batman in them, the Nolan and Schumacher films have him too, but because they're awesome films with the right mix of fantasy, drama, action, comedy, a bit of romance and extraordinary visuals and soundtrack.

[riddler]

I can't make up my mind. They're both classics. I used to like Batman more and watched it many times until I knew almost every line by heart, then I started appreciating Returns more. Each time I watch the end of either of them I wish we had at least two more movies in the same vein. They're two of my favortie movies, and not just because they have Batman in them, the Nolan and Schumacher films have him too, but because they're awesome films with the right mix of fantasy, drama, action, comedy, a bit of romance and extraordinary visuals and soundtrack.

Burton definitely got the right mix; Nolan lacked humour, action, and fantasy (and of course Zimmer is no elfman). Shumacher went overboard on the comedy and the soundtrack was lacking. Not to slag on Schumacher after the abuse he's taken but where he failed is that he didn't follow Burton's blueprint; any comedy from Batman himself was ironic comedy (ie him putting the dynamite on the thug or thwarting the penguin) but most of his comedy came from the villains. Schumacher attempting to make the heroes funny turned it into a self-satire.