anyone worried for the future of the Marvel movies?

[Dagenspear]

I never held much support for either the MCU or the DCEU after Avengers. IM is one of the best the MCU has to offer. IM2 is trying too hard and simultaneously not hard enough. TIH is a decent movie. Thor was the same. CA was fine. BvS and AOU are both dumb, obnoxious and nonsensical movies, but in different ways. MOS was so far in the wrong direction it was a joke. Avengers, IM3 and T: TDW were jokes, though Avengers was a better made joke and seemed to want to be one in the name of Whedoning. GOTG was fun, but not great. TWS was good. CW was good. DS was meh overall. Ant-Man was fine. GOTG 2 was lesser made than the first, but still was fine with a solid emotional punch to it. SS was fun, but it was still not good. Despite what's said, MOS pretends it explores its themes and then doesn't. It depends on the next movie to do that and then the next movie pretends it's themes matter to the characters but they don't while brushing them away. Everything does become more silly when you play it completely straight and MOS and BvS played itself straighter than any superhero movie I've ever seen, while still trying to be comicbooky. Consequences don't really matter to either franchises at this point. Tony and Steve will be friends in the next movie. Coulson's still alive. That Shield being dismantled problem was blown off in AOU. The problems in AOS will likely never arise in the movies. The Defenders is likely not gonna effect the movies. DS literally has a way to time travel. Clark's "death" means nothing. He'll be back and that's made clear by the movie. Bruce trying to kill a guy who was a hero based on his issues with his potential will never come back to bite him. SS thought it was about a reaction to Superman's death, but the fact was his death meant nothing so the reaction meant nothing and them pretending it did only made having the characters sillier, like Harley, Boomerang, Deadshot as he is and Slipknot are gonna mean anything as a threat to another Superman whose against them. Movies can be fun and serious. Both sides try to take the either/or approach. I blame Joss Whedon's Avengers for the MCU side of things personally. Have a very great day!

God bless you all!

[The Laughing Fish]

And honestly, even that rule is kind of fallible inasmuch as Ant Man was fairly enjoyable, I guess... but it didn't knock my socks off. In the unlikely event it gets a sequel, I shudder to think how far it'll crater.

There will be a sequel next year called Ant-Man and the Wasp.

So the bottom line here is that there's good reason to be concerned with the MCU's future. And I haven't even really discussed what a conveyor belt of fluff Marvel Studios has become.

What I personally find ironic is the latest MCU films lauded as the "most fun" tend to be less entertaining than the ones that came before. Even the post-credit scenes, which used to be an exciting little sneak peak of what's to come next, are phoned in nowadays. They're mostly there for cheap gags and nothing more. It's a shame.

[riddler]

On the subject of Marvel getting far too cartoonish, in his last 3 outings (Iron Man 3, Age of Ultron, Civil war) Iron Man and Tony stark have taken quite the emotional and physical beating in all three films. I take the humbling of Tony Stark far more serious than the humbling of Bruce Wayne from the dark knight rises where he pretty much clocked out and gave up years before.

[The Dark Knight]

Waiting for DC films is harder given they're spaced out a lot more in comparison to Marvel. But I feel that level of anticipation adds something to the whole filmgoing experience. These films become more of an event instead of eliciting a 'oh, here's another one' type feeling. Man of Steel, BvS: Dawn of Justice and Wonder Woman are really special to me. They're films that make statements and aren't forgettable.

I also love how even though some people hated BvS, it's still the ground zero for everything that follows.

We first see Aquaman, Flash and Cyborg in BvS, and their coming solo films will enrich those brief sequences.
The World War One photograph of Diana we see in BvS is greatly elaborated upon in the Wonder Woman solo film.
Superman's resurgence as a global protector more accepted by the public started in BvS.
Robin's death (implied by the graffitied costume in BvS) is probably going to be explored in The Batman.

The story of the DCEU goes on, but BvS really nailed down everything for the universe going forward.

BvS was the crossroads for a lot of characters in the DCEU universe. It's where it all changed.

Batman used to be a 'good' man before Superman arrived and Robin died. He seemingly had a purer sense of heroism. It took Superman's death to inspire him to return to his old self we will see again in Justice League. Wonder Woman remained in the background after World War One, unimpressed with the ugliness she saw from mankind. It took Doomsday's rampage for her to fight for humanity again.

Lex Luthor outed himself to Batman and Superman as a villain, and his stint in Arkham is no doubt going to turn his quirky personality into something colder. His long hair coming off symbolised that transition in my opinion.

In a short space of time I think the DCEU has connected their universe rather smartly and not obnoxiously. The Wayne Enterprises satellite in Man of Steel, for instance. BvS is the true starting point for this universe and honestly, it doesn't get enough credit for its universe building.

[riddler]

Waiting for DC films is harder given they're spaced out a lot more in comparison to Marvel. But I feel that level of anticipation adds something to the whole filmgoing experience. These films become more of an event instead of eliciting a 'oh, here's another one' type feeling. Man of Steel, BvS: Dawn of Justice and Wonder Woman are really special to me. They're films that make statements and aren't forgettable.

I also love how even though some people hated BvS, it's still the ground zero for everything that follows.


Lex Luthor outed himself to Batman and Superman as a villain, and his stint in Arkham is no doubt going to turn his quirky personality into something colder. His long hair coming off symbolised that transition in my opinion.

In a short space of time I think the DCEU has connected their universe rather smartly and not obnoxiously. The Wayne Enterprises satellite in Man of Steel, for instance. BvS is the true starting point for this universe and honestly, it doesn't get enough credit for its universe building.

I question how much if at all BvS was in development during the post production of Man of Steel. I remember at the time assuming that Wayne Enterprises logo was nothing but a nod. That being said they did well to incorporate it into BvS from Bruce Wayne's perspective.

Eisenberg seems to be the biggest criticism of BvS but you hit the nail on the head; this is an early version of Lex and his transformation into the more common Luthor doesn't happen until his head is shaved near the end.
j
While I enjoy the last three films in the DCEU I think it is premature to give DC too much credit. I have hope after Wonder Woman but if Justice League doesn't pan out, we'll be having this discussion again.

[The Dark Knight]

I question how much if at all BvS was in development during the post production of Man of Steel.

At this point I honestly don't think it matters that much. The connective tissue is there regardless of what the filmmakers were intending at the time. The battle of Metropolis from Bruce's perspective connected the films in such an amazing way that I instantly bought the concept.

While I enjoy the last three films in the DCEU I think it is premature to give DC too much credit.

How many times have we heard how DC didn't give Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Flash and Cyborg solo movies BEFORE their appearances in Dawn of Justice/Justice League? The premise was that Marvel did things this way, so DC had to as well. I give DC credit for doing things their way. By focusing on the primary conflict of Batman and Superman, they sprinkled just enough extended universe material to grow their world for the future.

I have hope after Wonder Woman but if Justice League doesn't pan out, we'll be having this discussion again.

Early indicators suggest Aquaman is going to be a scene stealer, same with The Flash. That's very good news, especially for Aquaman considering his solo film comes straight after Justice League. Wonder Woman isn't an issue anymore given Gal has well and truly won people over. Affleck copped heat not because of his performance, but because of the whole hypocritical 'he killed' thing. But if you take that away, Affleck received a lot of love. The main beef people have with the DCEU is with Superman. I don't agree with them, but regardless, I'm expecting a glorious return for the character in JL.

[thecolorsblend]

Since we're on the subject, I'm getting a little fed up with the "Nobody planned a shared universe ahead of time" shtick with the DCEU.

If we really want to get done to brass tacks, production was well underway on the first Iron Man movie before somebody at Marvel Studios thought about creating an Avengers movie and all or most of what became Phase 1. That whole concept came relatively late in the game.

To me, the whole point of filmmaking is developing a story as you go. The script that gets written may not necessarily be what ultimately gets filmed.

And what ultimately gets filmed may go in unexpected, unpredictable directions. Happens all the time. Sometimes you discover things as you move through the creative process. So even if the DCEU as it has unfolded so far wasn't uppermost on anybody's mind during production on MOS, so what? People had been riding WB's crank for years about not competing with Marvel more directly.

Now that WB is competing with Marvel more directly, people have found new things to throw tantrums over. It's idiotic.

In the end, people can love or hate the movies. Whatever. But can we at least not move the goalposts please?

[The Laughing Fish]

If we really want to get done to brass tacks, production was well underway on the first Iron Man movie before somebody at Marvel Studios thought about creating an Avengers movie and all or most of what became Phase 1. That whole concept came relatively late in the game.

To me, the whole point of filmmaking is developing a story as you go. The script that gets written may not necessarily be what ultimately gets filmed.

And what ultimately gets filmed may go in unexpected, unpredictable directions. Happens all the time. Sometimes you discover things as you move through the creative process.

The first Iron Man is definitely a perfect example of this because it turns out the script was constantly rewritten DURING filming. Jeff Bridges looked back and claimed there was no script, as he didn't even know his lines at all. Sometimes, even the actors themselves would have to call the writers to check if they came up with ideas.

I recall that Downey and Bridges ad-libbed a lot of their lines, but I didn't know it was this dire. If Iron Man was coming out today, the clickbait-trashy websites would savour how the film is a 'mess'. It's a miracle the film turned any good at all.

Source: http://www.space.ca/jeff-bridges-iron-man/

Besides, as you mentioned this many times before, Justice League Mortal was supposed to be made in 2007, but never got to get its foot off the ground.

[riddler]

Fair point about the first iron man movie. I don't MARVEL had all the answers from the start for the following reasons
1) the order the phase one movies came out.  The Incredible Hulk should have been delayed until 2009 and Iron Man 2 should have been the last film before the avengers.
2) Despite being a very enjoyable film, the Incredible Hulk is a mess from a producing standpoint. It should have been delayed to 2009 which was a much quieter year for superhero movies (Hancock and the dark knight came out in 08, the only thing to come out in 09 was wolverine) as well as giving it an extra year to separate itself from the Ang Lee film. Not securing the lead actor for more than one film was a mistake (imagine if Ruffalo was cast back then?) and they should have properly secured the character's rights like they eventually did with Spider-man. It should be noted this remains the only MCU film without a post credits scene since the Tony Stark scene came from before the credits
3) It seems very obvious they started to do things differently once Iron Man made all that money, it was not expected to be that good


I respect that DC is adding onto their universe instead of bringing all of them together at once. In 2012 we went from never seeing a superhero cross over to seeing 7 of them appear in the same film. The best way to start it was Batman vs superman. I agree about Aquaman, I'm hoping Jason Mamoa can finally shed the image of Aquaman being the laughing stock of the JLA. I am most looking forward to seeing the relationships between Arthur Curry, Bruce Wayne, and Barry Allen. I can also tell DC is lightening up and allowing some jokes finally.

I have stated several times I dont like siding with either. Hopefully infinity war and justice league end up outstanding films.

[Dagenspear]

Since we're on the subject, I'm getting a little fed up with the "Nobody planned a shared universe ahead of time" shtick with the DCEU.

If we really want to get done to brass tacks, production was well underway on the first Iron Man movie before somebody at Marvel Studios thought about creating an Avengers movie and all or most of what became Phase 1. That whole concept came relatively late in the game.

To me, the whole point of filmmaking is developing a story as you go. The script that gets written may not necessarily be what ultimately gets filmed.

And what ultimately gets filmed may go in unexpected, unpredictable directions. Happens all the time. Sometimes you discover things as you move through the creative process. So even if the DCEU as it has unfolded so far wasn't uppermost on anybody's mind during production on MOS, so what? People had been riding WB's crank for years about not competing with Marvel more directly.

Now that WB is competing with Marvel more directly, people have found new things to throw tantrums over. It's idiotic.

In the end, people can love or hate the movies. Whatever. But can we at least not move the goalposts please?

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see the complaint being that there wasn't a plan from the start. Just that they're cramming it in all at once and to them not very well. I personally never wanted BvS or any set up movies except maybe WW. I wanted JL right off the bat and don't care if there's an introductory period. Have them be established, deal with the rest later. I never even wanted MOS. Thought they should have rebooted both Batman and Superman in a teamup movie, do Wonder Woman, then Justice League. Have a very great day!

God bless you all!