If not the Penguin...

[Edd Grayson]

Who would've been a good villain for Batman Returns at the time beside the Penguin?

While it's not my favorite version of the character, I like Tim Burton's more tragic and monster-like Penguin and I thought Danny DeVito did a good job in playing  but I wonder what would Batman Returns have been like if they had used another villain along with Catwoman and Shreck.

Two-Face would've beeen interesting with Billy Dee Williams possibly reprising his role as Harvey Dent from the first film. I think Harvey's transformation in Tim Burton's vision would've been great to see.

Another villain I think that could have worked is Mr Freeze, because of the Christmas setting and because he's a tragic character in his own right. If they made him similar to "Heart of Ice" it would've been fantastic.


What do you think?

[Catwoman]

the riddler. maybe he could have been another employee of shreck's along with selina and they would be completely oblivious to the fact that they were coworkers for the son of a bitch until the end. everyone would find out who everyone else was at the end and it would be like this collective "....what...the....hell" moment lol.

[Edd Grayson]

That's a good idea, Catwoman. What would the Riddler be like? Comedic or darker?

[Catwoman]

a dry sarcastic wit to go along with his riddles.

[JokerMeThis]

I would've liked to have seen Two-Face played by Billy Dee Williams. Mr. Freeze would've been good for the reasons already stated. A dark Riddler maybe. Or maybe Killer Croc. Some people may think the Penguin in this movie is like Killer Croc. Or maybe Poison Ivy. I'd like to see Catwoman and Poison Ivy meet each other and hear what they'd have to say to each other.

[Catwoman]

maybe catwoman would have said to ivy what magpie said to katana in one of the "lost eps" of beware the batman

"timed to get pruned, little flower!"

lol

[The Dark Knight]

Mr Freeze, potentially.

"Stop global warming, start global cooling. Make the world a giant icebox."

[johnnygobbs]

Who would've been a good villain for Batman Returns at the time beside the Penguin?

While it's not my favorite version of the character, I like Tim Burton's more tragic and monster-like Penguin and I thought Danny DeVito did a good job in playing  but I wonder what would Batman Returns have been like if they had used another villain along with Catwoman and Shreck.

Two-Face would've beeen interesting with Billy Dee Williams possibly reprising his role as Harvey Dent from the first film. I think Harvey's transformation in Tim Burton's vision would've been great to see.

Another villain I think that could have worked is Mr Freeze, because of the Christmas setting and because he's a tragic character in his own right. If they made him similar to "Heart of Ice" it would've been fantastic.


What do you think?

Catwoman was already a tragic, sympathetic villain so you needed someone unrepentantly evil to balance her out.  I guess that's the role that Shreck filled but if Shreck didn't exist I'm not sure Two-Face or Mr Freeze, in his 'B:TAS' guise would suffice.  Both Two-Face and Mr Freeze are tragic villains who once had a very good side.

Maybe The Scarecrow would have been a good villain for Burton since he would suit his creepy, gothic, macabre vibe.  But a more traditional Penguin, assuming some of the characteristics of Shreck in the final film would be my preference.

[The Laughing Fish]

I can imagine the film merging Shreck and Penguin as the same character; the business tycoon and the aspiring mayor campaigner. It would sacrifice the Penguin's gothic backstory though, so would it make the film more interesting? Probably not.

[johnnygobbs]

I can imagine the film merging Shreck and Penguin as the same character; the business tycoon and the aspiring mayor campaigner. It would sacrifice the Penguin's gothic backstory though, so would it make the film more interesting? Probably not.

I have mixed feelings.  On one hand I think Burton's sensibilities were better suited to a more tragic, sympathetic villain (i.e. the outcast we ended up with in 'Batman Returns').  On the other hand, if it wasn't for Burton I'd have preferred to have seen a more traditional, loathsome version of the Penguin (either a spoiled rich boy or a self-made tycoon, who pulls strings to plot Gotham's downfall).  In some ways, the Penguin in this film is the opposite to that version; he's the poor, dispossessed outsider lashing back at the relatively privileged, content society that he blames for rejecting him.