Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice

[Dagenspear]

A simple search on other message boards shows you BvS gets hit hard in pretty much all the key areas. The haters DO basically hate everything and anything associated with BvS. Brain dead fools have their heads in the sand to argue otherwise. The consensus has been set as 'the film sucked, it was a disappointment' and thus any praise is the minority, and if you like BvS you are a lover of bad movies. Because BvS is a bad movie.

Even Affleck, an obvious strength, gets critiqued due to the 'poor characterisation', and because they hate the film and Affleck expressed enthusiasm for it beforehand, he apparently cannot be trusted in terms of future quality either. The film doesn't get a fair go. Plain and simple. It's my opinion the detractors don't get it, and I'm not changing my opinion to suit anyone else's. The Tomato Meter is all the proof the haters need to rip the film to shreds.

And they're having a jolly old time. They can do so....and I can also rip them and their opinions to shreds.

For what should have been a fun time debating the film has become bogged down in infuriating discussions like these.

That's still a false representation. There are people that feel this way, but not everyone does, like you implied with your statement. But the proof of what I said that you don't have an argument is right there in you insulting people based on people's thoughts on a movie. Please don't pretend like any of us have a high ground. We don't. I'm very sorry for my harshness. Have a very great day you and everyone!

God bless you! God bless everyone!

[The Dark Knight]

Thanks for your opinion.

[The Laughing Fish]

I've heard some criticisms about Bruce's nightmares, as some people claim they're inconsequential to the plot.

I'd have to disagree. Both sequences reflect how troubled and haunted Bruce's state of mind is. The blood pouring out from his mother's tomb, to me, shows how that violent and tragic night of his parents' deaths still consumes him to this day. Yes, it maybe retreading material to what B89 and BF had covered, but I still appreciate it for its imagery. The hideous bat popping out of the tomb signifies how Bruce chose this symbol to disguise himself has turned him into this beast that grows even more vicious as time and experience passes by.

While I can understand some complaints about the post-apocalyptic Knightmare scene to a degree in terms of pacing, I disagree with those who say this scene is pointless. This dream explored Bruce's fear of Superman fulfilling that "1% chance" of turning against the world, as we saw his hunt for Kryptonite ended in betrayal, and he's taken prisoner to face off a tyrannical and vengeful Superman. As broken and paranoid Bruce is, this scene establishes his fear of Superman is an alien who has the power to take down the entire planet. Given he had explained to Alfred that good could never be sustainable during his twenty year experience as Batman, Bruce - like it or not - believes it's only a matter of time before Superman could pose as a risk to humanity.

If I have one gripe about this sequence, it would have to be the gun battle between Batman and the stormtroopers. Point blank range, and none of them could shoot Batman. It was the only action scene in this movie that felt just as awkward and poorly staged as the penthouse and rooftop fight scenes in TDK and TDKR, as goons stood by and got beaten up despite having all the time in the world to shoot Batman.

Another thing I wondered about the Knightmare scene was Superman accused Batman of letting "her" die and how she meant the world to him. I'm aware of the theory that this entire scene could've been set on a parallel timeline, until the Flash had reset it. If that's true, could it be possible that Lex's plan worked in this timeline: Batman killed Superman and Martha died as a result? If so, it would make sense why the Flash cameo was important.

[The Dark Knight]

No, I don't think so. I believe that possible future takes place well after BvS. The Flash says "Lois is the key". I think it's likely that Batman's behaviour led to Lois' death in some way, which made Superman snap. Because we hear Superman say Lois IS his world. His anchor of sanity. With her gone, Superman is in full despair mode.

And The Flash says he's "too soon" in Bruce's timeline, meaning the incident he's warning about still has a while to eventuate. At the time of having the vision/dream, Bruce doesn't know specifics. He just has the vibe that if left unchecked, Superman could be a threat. And he must act now.

But anyway, I believe this will all be averted. It ends with Batman getting his chest impaled. It's likely the fruition of Darkseid's grand scheme. A scorched Earth where he rules the inhabitants with another powerful God at his side.

As for the other nightmares, I'm a big fan. It gets into the psyche of the character, and visually, it's stunning. Snyder knows how to create poetry in motion.

[Dagenspear]

Thanks for your opinion.

It's not an opinion. No one, especially those that insult people have a high ground. It's unnecessary and hurtful to them. That's not justified. Have a very great day you and everyone!

God bless you! God bless everyone!

[The Laughing Fish]

No, I don't think so. I believe that possible future takes place well after BvS. The Flash says "Lois is the key". I think it's likely that Batman's behaviour led to Lois' death in some way, which made Superman snap. Because we hear Superman say Lois IS his world. His anchor of sanity. With her gone, Superman is in full despair mode.

You're right. I forgot Flash mentioning Lois.

Come to think of it, Lois Lane's death triggering Superman to become a deadly tyrant must have been influenced by the Injustice: Gods Among Us video game. Will this scene be further explored in the Justice League movies I wonder?

[The Dark Knight]

I think so. If Bruce realises it was a legitimate vision and not a nightmare, I'm sure he'll still keep it to himself. Which would be awesome, much like his secretive ways in Tower of Babel.

[The Laughing Fish]

I've found complaints over how dark the movie is to be quite rich given previous Batman films - and even Superman films - have lots of moments of dark subject matter too.

I'll admit that I got my eyebrows raised when Clark watched the news reporting Batman's branding of sexual predators, but is it really pushing the envelope too far?

B89 had Joker electrocuting somebody to death with a hand-buzzer, and mocks the victim's corpse. BR, which is in my opinion still the darkest Batman movie of the entire franchise, depicted a deformed Penguin as an outcast with perverted tendencies and having the intention to murder babies, and a psychologically unstable Catwoman hellbent on revenge. Even BF, for all its "camp" and lighter tone, still had a homicidal Two-Face and stalker-obsessed Riddler.

TDK had Joker commit crimes in gruesome fashion and Two-Face threatened to murder a child. TDKR had Gotham City tearing itself up as people are executed during the siege. Not to mention that film showed Talia's backstory, where she narrowly avoided the same fate as her mother as Bane helped her escape from the Pit from murderous inmates. If they got their hands on her, who the hell knows what those deviants would've done to her? And remember, she was a child when she escaped, which makes that backstory even more disturbing.

If people do have a problem with the mere mention of child predators in BvS, then they should condemn BR, TDK and TDKR for showing an attempt on children's lives.

As I said elsewhere, the Christopher Reeve films may be brighter in tone, but they too have moments of darkness i.e. Krypton's destruction, Lex killing a cop, Zod and his henchmen killing astronauts on the moon and raiding the White House, and the junkyard fight in SIII. Reeve's terrifying evil Superman in that junkyard fight made me sh*t my pants as a kid, as did Krypton's demise in S78. Hell, there was a deleted scene where Non murdered a young boy in SII, which is thankfully rare to find.

I get that some people felt uncomfortable over Batman's ruthlessness in BvS, but the film did establish why he became this way. In fact, the dialogue spelled it out for you in many instances.

And let's face it, apart from Clooney in B&R, Batman on screen always had serious mental issues. Keaton's Batman was not that sane and used crime-fighting to fill the void in his life, Kilmer's Batman (who was supposed to be a continuation of Keaton) had severe memory issues before recovering and getting over his guilt for good. Bale...well, he was definitely a mess, but thanks to shoddy writing rather than well developed characterisation.

So yeah. One may wish to criticise the plot, but its dark tone is nothing drastically new compared to what I've seen before.

[riddler]

A perfectly sane Batman wouldn't be as enjoyable. I prefer batman as mentally unstable but in a manner beneficial to good people.

[Travesty]

I think people are mixing up "dark" with "intense". I don't think Batfleck is the darkest, but I do think he's the most intense.