Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice

[johnnygobbs]

I know, but it's more about the perception.

Make no mistake, the people who say they really, really hoped BvS was 'better' are relishing this. It's very much personal and competitive. Otherwise you wouldn't see outright mocking and laughter. They're a bunch of c**** and internet friendships will be, and I'd say have been, altered because of this. I'm not joking either. People's true colours have been shown.

I don't think anyone 'relishes' a bad movie.  And I don't think it's wrong to hope for something better when a movie fails to meet a certain desired standard.

I do think there is an element of 'we told you so' in some instances.  But it's a feeling of regret rather than a smug, satisfied one.  Some of us wish Snyder had listened to the criticisms that were directed towards MOS and in terms of some of the creative decisions he was making on BvS.  Now that it appears those fears have been realised, I don't see why the naysayers should be subjected to name-calling and blacklisting.

It seems that the critics can't win.  If they'd been wrong, they would have inevitably been made to look foolish for expressing any doubts in the first place.  Yet, now it appears they have been proven right, and BvS's BO has suffered as a consequence of general audience dissatisfaction with Snyder's approach to the characters, they are still subject to abuse including name-calling and the threat of friendships being withdrawn.

You're a reasonable guy TDK.  I'm sure you must be able to see that you're possibly being a tad unfair here.

That said if anyone is outright mocking and laughing at fans of BvS or the potential collapse of the DCEU, they're clearly jerks.  But I hope no one is confusing mere criticism and despair at Snyder and co's approach for mockery and malice.

[Catwoman]

I'm glad IMDb's quotes page is finally updated, there were a few lines that I had a hard time understanding what was said the first go round. Not many of them were anything major but this one, the part in bold, I thought he said something like this but I wasn't sure.

Lex Luthor: See, what we call God depends upon our tribe, Clark Joe, 'cause God is tribal; God takes sides! No man in the sky intervened when I was a boy to deliver me from daddy's fist and abominations. I figured out way back if God is all-powerful, He cannot be all good. And if He is all good, then He cannot be all-powerful. And neither can you be.

That gives me a little bit more of a sympathy or understanding for the character even though I still wish Batman had caved his face in at the end lol.

This was another one, I got the "you've never been too hot at lying to me" part but it was hard to grasp what Jeremy was saying before that. For one, it wasn't an analogy I would have ever come up with in like two million years lol but second, as sexy as his voice is sometimes the words are a little muddled. Not that I'm complaining or anything.....ok Kitty focus, The line, damnit, the line.

Alfred: Master Wayne, since the age of seven you've been into the art of deception like Mozart to the harpsichord, but you've never been too hot at lying to me.

[The Laughing Fish]

I actually missed that line by Lex. It really defines his cynical view on Superman and life in general, and manifests into something more monstrous.

Batman may have been stuck in a dark place throughout this movie, but you could feel Alfred's agitation over Bruce's attitude. I'd go far to suggest he seemed very bitter too.

[The Dark Knight]

Baleman had his mouth open most of the time, looking dumbfounded. He had that embarrassing throat cancer voice. He had that busy, aesthetically unpleasing puzzle suit. But if Affleck's Batman kills some goons, like the other Batmen, everybody loses their minds. And Baleman becomes better by default.

[The Laughing Fish]

Hey TDK, I'd like to go back to your review and appreciation of Cavill's Superman in this movie, and ask if your thoughts on MOS has changed for the best, if they weren't already that good before? One of the things I liked about this movie is it explores the foreboding dialogue delivered by Pa Kent on how the world would change, and how Superman's presence has his supporters and detractors.

I have my share of issues with how Superman was used for the remainder of the plot, but the last twenty minutes did make up for that. The most frustrating thing is in those twenty odd minutes, Superman's attempts to try to take the fight with Doomsday away from the city, and even saving Lex moments earlier should've won the detractors over...but it didn't.

[johnnygobbs]

The most frustrating thing is in those twenty odd minutes, Superman's attempts to try to take the fight with Doomsday away from the city, and even saving Lex moments earlier should've won the detractors over...but it didn't.

I keep reading the defenders of this version of Lex say 'well at least he's a super-genius'.

If that is the case than why did he need to be saved?  Why would a 'super-genius' put himself in a position where he was going to get himself killed?

It also really angers me that they made this Lex so irredeemable and hateful yet he gets rescued whilst so many other characters in various Batman and Superman films over the years have been left to die.    If Lex is such a nasty POS he should have been left to perish; it's not as if Batman, for instance, hasn't let/seen relatively innocent people die in front of his eyes before.

[The Dark Knight]

Hey TDK, I'd like to go back to your review and appreciation of Cavill's Superman in this movie, and ask if your thoughts on MOS has changed for the best, if they weren't already that good before?

I liked MoS before, but I now like it more. I think it's because BvS takes a lot of that material - references it and builds on it. Supes not just takes Doomsday into space, but willingly keeps pushing himself and his foe further upwards. This is a man embracing a nuclear strike in the hope it will destroy the threat. And if he dies as a result, so be it.

But hey, Superman in this series isn't meant to care about humanity apparently.

[The Joker]

But hey, Superman in this series isn't meant to care about humanity apparently.

Yeah, the detractor's can be pretty funny in their assumptions. Superman saved plenty of people throughout MOS, not to mention by the end, oh yeah, the ENTIRE PLANET!

I remember defending MOS quite a bit on the internet following it's release, but quickly realized that arguing the same points over and over again with it's detractor's was a complete waste of time and effort. They had already made up their minds.

[Travesty]

The weird thing is, I think these Snyder haters make the uber-Nolan fans look a bit sane. At least you could engage in some kind of discussion with them. It's a bit crazy what some of the stuff I'm seeing these guys pull off. It's gone way beyond the movie now, as they're going for old quotes that Snyder made about 8-9 years ago, to then finding a random pic of a sick kid in a hospital, and a guy dressed like Superman is hugging him, and they're somehow shoehorning their hatred in, by saying that's how Snyder dropped the ball, and he's an idiot for not realizing. They're using sick kids to bolster up their hatred. If the movie is as bad as they claim, I would imagine that would be evidence enough, but it's gone wayyyyy past that, now.

[johnnygobbs]

The weird thing is, I think these Snyder haters make the uber-Nolan fans look a bit sane. At least you could engage in some kind of discussion with them. It's a bit crazy what some of the stuff I'm seeing these guys pull off. It's gone way beyond the movie now, as they're going for old quotes that Snyder made about 8-9 years ago, to then finding a random pic of a sick kid in a hospital, and a guy dressed like Superman is hugging him, and they're somehow shoehorning their hatred in, by saying that's how Snyder dropped the ball, and he's an idiot for not realizing. They're using sick kids to bolster up their hatred. If the movie is as bad as they claim, I would imagine that would be evidence enough, but it's gone wayyyyy past that, now.

At the risk of being called 'insane' myself, I guess that makes 72% of critics 'insane'. 

Let's be honest here, this film has received almost universal hatred.  I'm not celebrating that; it's a shame.  But to quote Snyder 'it is what it is'.  Let's not pretend that it's a minority of hard-core crazies who are attacking this film.