Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice

[riddler]

If you consider most films to be three acts; a beginning, a middle and an end, than this is the first act of the JLA trilogy.

The Avengers was different as they had SHIELD and the trio of Nick Fury, Natasha Romanoff, and Phil Coulson to bring the team together. While they didn't overly like each other at first, they seemed to trust SHIELD to an extent and thus trust each other. Batman and Superman have no SHIELD, they had to investigate each other and the rest of the JLA on their own. It's on them to decide who is a hero and who is a villain.

It's not the civil war either, that film had heroes who knew each other fighting, BvS was fighting the threat of the unknown.


And this is not to say DC is better or worse than Marvel. Marvel did it their way; throw the heroes together and have them all team up, DC is doing it in a more staggered approach; start with two, add Wonder Woman, then likely add Cyborg and Flash later on. Perhaps this film will be comparable to Thor 3 as it seems that film will feature Thor and the Hulk but again those two characters know each other, BvS featured the two meeting for the first time.


One big difference between the JLA and avengers (and again I'm not saying one is better than the other) is that the Avengers are there to avenge and typically have more fighting. The JLA are more detectives and use their day jobs (journalist, billionaire industrialist, crime scene investigator etc.) to help with their night crusades. The DC characters tend to fit the "normal person by day/masked vigilante by night" mold than the Marvel Characters with one notable exception on each side (Superman who does fight frequently during the day and daredevil who typically only goes out at night). I thought BvS did a good job setting up all of Clark Kent, Bruce Wayne, and Diana Prince as skilled detectives. It's something Nolan talked about doing with Bale but never did. One scene which I felt really affirmed how great Affleck was, is the scene at lex luthors house. He did what Nolan/Bale often did and pretended to be a flake to avoid tipping people off but in a less obvious manner. I kind of feel if Bale were playing that scene (Bruce Wayne pretending to be drunk) he'd have been more obvious with it and staggering and bumbling around while Affleck reeled it in and was acting a bit tipsy and lost.

I look forward to STAR labs

[Catwoman]

This is for anyone who didn't like the Bat branding sex offenders and sending them off to their certain doom in prison. I wish he had brought Supes around to his way of thinking in BvS.

Yes I know that it was a clone of Superman that did this, not the genuine article, but still, it makes for a very cool image. As for the reason I haven't seen the movie yet so all I know is that a four-year-old girl was killed by Toyman but I don't know what the circumstances were but either way, he got what he deserved. I propose this as a new form of capital punishment for those dogs.

On another note I need to see this soon. Love me some Adam Baldwin.

[The Laughing Fish]

If Superman was going to kill, I'd rather if it's only a last resort against genocidal maniacs i.e. Zod in MOS and the Anti-Monitor in Crisis on Infinite Earths.

Besides, let Batman take care of sex offenders. 

[The Dark Knight]

If Superman was going to kill, I'd rather if it's only a last resort against genocidal maniacs i.e. Zod in MOS and the Anti-Monitor in Crisis on Infinite Earths.

Besides, let Batman take care of sex offenders. 

I agree. There has to be a differentiation from Batman's methods when it comes to Superman.

[Catwoman]

It was a joke, people.

[The Dark Knight]

You know, the detractors of BvS say they 'get it', but they really don't. I don't have any time for their nonsense.

TDK Returns is an influence in terms of aesthetic, age and gruff attitude. But BvS is nonetheless its own beast, tackling the character from another viewpoint. Batman becoming ruthless to compensate for the arrival of Superman.

But hey...it all sucks yo. Any praise this film receives is false and overblown.

[The Laughing Fish]

If you consider most films to be three acts; a beginning, a middle and an end, than this is the first act of the JLA trilogy.

The Avengers was different as they had SHIELD and the trio of Nick Fury, Natasha Romanoff, and Phil Coulson to bring the team together. While they didn't overly like each other at first, they seemed to trust SHIELD to an extent and thus trust each other. Batman and Superman have no SHIELD, they had to investigate each other and the rest of the JLA on their own. It's on them to decide who is a hero and who is a villain.

It's not the civil war either, that film had heroes who knew each other fighting, BvS was fighting the threat of the unknown.

True. Clark and Bruce's being at odds with each other and what they believed they stood for was definitely something Lex took advantage of. I gather Lex wasn't merely satisfied with only destroying Superman, but he wanted him to be completely discredited (i.e. the Senate bombing) and chose Batman as his champion to annihilate him.

One big difference between the JLA and avengers (and again I'm not saying one is better than the other) is that the Avengers are there to avenge and typically have more fighting. The JLA are more detectives and use their day jobs (journalist, billionaire industrialist, crime scene investigator etc.) to help with their night crusades. The DC characters tend to fit the "normal person by day/masked vigilante by night" mold than the Marvel Characters with one notable exception on each side (Superman who does fight frequently during the day and daredevil who typically only goes out at night). I thought BvS did a good job setting up all of Clark Kent, Bruce Wayne, and Diana Prince as skilled detectives.

The Winter Soldier, if I remember, did have Nick Fury investigate into Project Insight and learned SHIELD had been corrupted. And let's not forget that Cap and Black Widow found the bunker where they learned HYDRA had been operated under the guise of SHIELD all along.

But nonetheless, yes, the DC heroes commit into some for of detective work.

It was a joke, people.

I knew that. 

Okay, I'm lying. I thought you were serious. 

You know, the detractors of BvS say they 'get it', but they really don't. I don't have any time for their nonsense.

The worst misconception is people insisting Batman spared Superman's life because "their mothers share the same name". Not because Batman realised that he was being manipulated by Lex into thinking Superman is a dangerous threat and nearly became the very thing he fought against by becoming a murderer, it's because Clark's mother was named Martha too. I could accept if people had problems with how the fight is set up (hell, I have some issues too), but you seriously have to be dense if you thought the conflict ended that simply.

[Dagenspear]

You know, the detractors of BvS say they 'get it', but they really don't. I don't have any time for their nonsense.

Then you don't have an argument it seems, when what you do is make an assumption, provide no argument to back it up and then make outright false statements.

TDK Returns is an influence in terms of aesthetic, age and gruff attitude. But BvS is nonetheless its own beast, tackling the character from another viewpoint. Batman becoming ruthless to compensate for the arrival of Superman.

But hey...it all sucks yo. Any praise this film receives is false and overblown.

That's a false impression of people who dislike the movie. Most of those that dislike the movie pretty much agree that Ben Affleck was good and like other aspects. Please stop pretending that they all hate everything about it to justify your us vs them attitude. Have a very great day you and everyone!

God bless you! God bless everyone!

[Catwoman]

It was a joke, people.

I knew that. 

Okay, I'm lying. I thought you were serious. 

It's okay. With some of the stuff I have said recently on the subject as far as Bats goes, it's a natural assumption. But where I feel like Batman can get away with lethal force on that kind of scum Supes HAS to have the whole "I under no circumstances will go that far" to have the trust of the people because of the amount of power he has.

The backlash on that is inexplicable to me, but I guess if I had a child i had to explain it to I'd feel differently about it being portrayed. It makes me want to write a fanfic, not really tied to any single Bativerse, about a female avenger character taking out the trash and going head to head with Batman and forcing him and the people (and the one or two people who might read it) to look inside themselves.

[The Dark Knight]

A simple search on other message boards shows you BvS gets hit hard in pretty much all the key areas. The haters DO basically hate everything and anything associated with BvS. Brain dead fools have their heads in the sand to argue otherwise. The consensus has been set as 'the film sucked, it was a disappointment' and thus any praise is the minority, and if you like BvS you are a lover of bad movies. Because BvS is a bad movie.

Even Affleck, an obvious strength, gets critiqued due to the 'poor characterisation', and because they hate the film and Affleck expressed enthusiasm for it beforehand, he apparently cannot be trusted in terms of future quality either. The film doesn't get a fair go. Plain and simple. It's my opinion the detractors don't get it, and I'm not changing my opinion to suit anyone else's. The Tomato Meter is all the proof the haters need to rip the film to shreds.

And they're having a jolly old time. They can do so....and I can also rip them and their opinions to shreds.

For what should have been a fun time debating the film has become bogged down in infuriating discussions like these.