Batman & Robin...Comic Book...Influences??

[gordonblu]

This is the power of Michael Gough; he makes Batman Forever and Batman and Robin watchable.

Excellent analysis, Silver Nemesis, i wouldn't be surprised if Batman whipped out some form of Credit Card or Bat-check book in the 50's/ 60's.

[Silver Nemesis]

The Bat-credit card.



This is really bothering me, but there's something nagging at my memory telling me I've seen this in a comic. I can't remember which one, so it might just be my memory playing tricks on me. But I could have sworn I once read a comic where Batman produced a credit card from his utility belt. He may have used it to force a locked door or something, but I can't remember the exact issue. Nevertheless my gut tells me the Bat-credit card does exist in the comics. If anyone can find evidence of this, please post it.

I'm not sure if this is what I was thinking of when I wrote the above, but Bruce Wayne uses a special credit card to access the batcave beneath the Wayne Enterprises building in 'The "I" of the Beholder' (Detective Comics #511, February 1982). It looks like a regular credit card, but is said to be "specially treated" in some way. Bruce swipes it through an innocuous slot on an elevator control panel, and it takes the elevator down to the batcave. Never leave the cave without it? In this instance, it's more like never enter the cave without it.

So there we have it, folks – the Bat-credit card. And with that, my analysis of this cinematic masterpiece is finally complete.

[Paul (ral)]

Feature material!

[Silver Nemesis]

Are you sure you want to post a feature about this movie? People might start to think we actually like it. But then if I didn't like it, why did I waste so much time writing this article on it...? 

I've got a few extra things to add to the Batman Forever comic influences thread too. I'll try and get around to doing that soon.

[DocLathropBrown]

I say screw the haters. We should celebrate Batman in all his forms, for good and bad.

[thecolorsblend]

I say screw the haters. We should celebrate Batman in all his forms, for good and bad.

Well. "Celebrate". I dunno about that. But a weird thing happened not long after that mega DVD set came out a few years back. By that point, we had all or most of BTAS on DVD, special editions of the Burton films, special editions of the Schumacher films, the Batman Begins DVD, the serials and I think other stuff too. On top of that, I think it was around 2004 or 2005 that DC got SERIOUS about printing up approximately two craploads of Batman trade paperbacks containing stories from eras too numerous to cite.

All of that stuff had a strange (perhaps unintended) side effect for B&R. No, I'll never love that movie. But all that other stuff helped at least me put it into a larger context. No, it's not Batman's finest hour. Not even close. But all that stuff up there did somehow make B&R easier to accept and just enjoy for whatever you can get out of it.

[BatmAngelus]

Are you sure you want to post a feature about this movie? People might start to think we actually like it. But then if I didn't like it, why did I waste so much time writing this article on it...? 

I've got a few extra things to add to the Batman Forever comic influences thread too. I'll try and get around to doing that soon.

Honestly, I feel that all of our comic book influences write-ups should be made into Batman-Online features (Sorry, Paul, I realize that's going to take some work, haha).  Right now, TDKR and Batman Returns are up and B89 is coming soon, but I think there could easily be Batman Forever, Batman & Robin, Batman Begins, and The Dark Knight comic book comparison features to complete the collection.

This'll take time, but one thing I'd like to add in all the articles is the names of the writers/creators and artists involved with these influential comics.  Fans online talk a lot about Burton, Schumacher, and Nolan, but none of those guys would've gotten anywhere without the comic book writers and artists who set the stage for everything.  Some are obvious, like Frank Miller and Alan Moore.  Others, not so much (i.e. a ton of The Dark Knight Rises comes from material by Chuck Dixon, Doug Moench, Greg Rucka, etc.).  I realize this is a lot since there's a ton of comics, but I think it'd be good to show acknowledgement.

[Silver Nemesis]

Sounds fair to me. It would take a long time, but these guys really do deserve credit. I was surprised to see just how much of TDKR was lifted from the works of Dixon and Moench. They didn't get an onscreen credit, so the least we can do is acknowledge them in our features.

Regarding the comic-to-movie threads on Burton's films, I was going to suggest we scrap them and write new ones from scratch. We could include all the old stuff, but add lots of extra material and go into ridiculously fine detail (comic comparisons for every single gadget, every single device in the batcave, every fighting move Batman uses, etc).

I was also thinking that in the case of Batman Returns, we could mention stories that came out after the movie to show how the film influenced the comics. For example, when discussing Penguin's origins we could mention how they were different to the one in the comics at the time. Then, after giving a quick overview of Oswald's back story in the old comics, we could say "However, recent revisions have brought Oswald's comic book origins more in line with those depicted in the movie..." And we'd then go on to mention things like Pain and Prejudice. By doing that, I reckon we could justify pretty much every aspect of the movie, including controversial stuff like the Penguin's deformity or his plan to kill all the children. Just as long as we make it clear which comparisons are influences on the movie, and which came afterwards.

As I've said before, it'd amazing if we could get some quotes confirming what the comic influences were. But in the case of Batman Returns, the only ones I can find are:

Michael Uslan:

"I think by the time of the second film, Tim was into the then current Batman comics of the 1990's, Which was a much darker, I call it a soulless, almost vampiric period for Batman. As a result of all of that Batman Returns, 1992, was a significantly darker, drearier film."

Daniel Waters, talking about The Dark Knight Returns:

''I think it's one of the best things done in any medium in the last five years. In fact, I was one of those naïve people who thought 'Why not just make a movie out of Miller's version?' Then you realize that no studio is going to spend $60 million on a movie where five hundred people get killed on The David Letterman Show.''

Michael Bair, artist on Catwoman: Her Sister's Keeper:

"This is the scene that was copied in both "Batman Returns" & "Catwoman" movies, where the dead body is surrounded by cats."

It's not much to go on.

I haven't seen any quotes from Sam Hamm on the subject. I know Waters said he disregarded everything from Hamm's draft, but the fact remains he's credited as a writer and the plot of the finished film does have elements from his script in it.

[Paul (ral)]

There is a Batman & Robin feature now open for editing.

I will get the rest opened up tonight.

I can transfer the images and text in the forum so far...it will be quicker than than the usual interface since you guys have already done the work.

[Batman88]

I say screw the haters. We should celebrate Batman in all his forms, for good and bad.

I agree with you. Batman & Robin may not be the best Batman movie ever (and it's not), but I like the "warm" feel it has to it, the family theme and I thought Clooney was a great Batman for what he had to work with. Had he been given the right material to work with (a dark, gritty Batman), he might have been the best up there with Keaton. I thought the whole thing looked cool and I remember loving the Bat suit when I was a kid (I still do, minus the nipples).

I try and enjoy the movie for what it is.

I remember being a kid when this came out and all the merchandise and Bat-mania that went with it. I know, not the best Bat-film to get excited about, but I guess it'll always have a little place in my heart.