Batman Returns and The Comics

[BatmAngelus]

Awesome additions, Silver!

Steve Englehart may have said that Carl Grissom was Rupert Thorne under another name, but I'd argue, with this evidence, that Max Schreck was a much closer version to Thorne.  Not just in his schemes, but look at that hair!

One thing that I did not mention in my Comikaze write-up, since it didn't seem to fit, is that I don't think Uslan was a fan of Schreck's character.  When Uslan was talking about how Pfeiffer's Catwoman was one of his favorite parts of Batman, panelist Jonathan London added, in his best Christopher Walken impression, "And...Max...Schreck."  It's hard to describe Uslan's expression, but the audience laughed and Uslan said, "That's for another discussion entirely."

Perhaps your write-up will give him more of an appreciation of the character when he sees the article (once we add these new ones in).   

[Silver Nemesis]

Well, as you wrote in the original feature - Shreck is basically Thorne. They've got the same hairstyle and everything. The only physical difference between the two characters is their weight. Thorne's fat, Shreck's thin. Thorne smokes cigars, Shreck doesn't. Other than that, they're really just the same guy. They even have similar macho ways of talking about business.

•   The plot to construct the power plant
•   The corrupt electioneering
•   The failed attempt to kill another major character, resulting in a vengeful vendetta
•   The Hill/Cobblepot mayoral campaign
•   The scheme to discredit Batman

Almost every Pre-Crisis Rupert Thorne plotline is there in the movie. And whether it was intentional or not, it certainly validates that aspect of the film.

It'll be interesting to see if this affects Uslan's views on the character.

[johnnygobbs]

Briliant as always Silver Nemesis.  This is rapidly becoming my favourite feature on this site.

Just a small request.  Do you have any pics of The Penguin Affair including the kidnap storyline you mentioned?

[The Dark Knight]

Absolutely brilliant. I am in heaven with these new BR additions - which are dead on and make me appreciate the movie even more.

[Silver Nemesis]

Just a small request.  Do you have any pics of The Penguin Affair including the kidnap storyline you mentioned?

Here you go Gobbs.

The kidnapping plot is very different from the one in the movie. Cobblepot becomes fixated on an actress after she plays a ruthless character in a TV show. He then sends a flock of carrier pigeons to kidnap her (yes, you read that right – carrier pigeons). But she obviously doesn't reciprocate his feelings. It's a weird subplot with little bearing on the main narrative.

[BatmAngelus]

Feature is now back up!  Reorganized and split into pages, with new references included, thanks to the great Silver Nemesis.  Link in my signature.

[The Laughing Fish]

As many people mentioned in this thread, The Killing Joke had a big influence on Burton's take on Batman, and not just for B89 either. Now that I'm thinking about it, there may have been a few more scenes in BR that got its ideas from Alan Moore's story.

The scene where the few remaining members of the Red Triangle Gang making their escape as soon as they hear the Batboat coming towards them can be compared to the Joker's circus freak gang running away once Batman makes his arrival in the Batmobile. Both the movie Penguin and comic Joker had their gangs deserting them, and were forced to confront Batman on their own.

Another possible influence is both Penguin and Joker were let down by a gag weapon. In the end of BR, the Penguin tries to shoot Batman with one of his umbrella guns, but he accidentally takes a harmless toy umbrella instead. In the end of TJK, the Joker tries to shoot Batman, but the gun is empty and fires a flag instead.

Finally, and now I know it's not quite the same thing, but both endings had Batman failing to convince the villain to do the right thing. In BR, Batman pleaded Catwoman to turn Max Shreck over to the police instead of killing him, because he cared for Selina on a romantic level. Despite not knowing what exactly Max did to her, Bruce unmasked himself to show Selina they're the same as each other and offered her the chance to escape from everything and go home with him. In TJK, Batman offered the Joker the chance to undergo rehabilitation to regain his sanity and to stop their war with each other. Like movie Batman didn't know what exactly drove Selina over the edge, comic Batman doesn't know what happened that made the Joker who he is, but mentions maybe he had been through a similar experience and tried to help the villain and let him know he didn't need to be alone. Both movie Catwoman and comic Joker reject Batman's pleas, and express strong remorse for their wrongs.

Whether Burton and co did any of this on purpose or not, I think it's easy to say TKJ had definitely a big influence on his work on a subconscious level. He did enjoy the comic, after all.

[Silver Nemesis]

Daniel Waters reacts to this site feature at the 11:22 mark in the following video:

[thecolorsblend]

But as far as I'm aware, the only tie-ins DC ever produced – not counting adaptations or comics based on animated shows – were for The Flash, Smallville and Superman Returns.

I'm only about eleven years late in replying to this comment.

But there WAS a title called Superboy: The Comic Book, which was a tie-in to the late Eighties/early Nineties TV show. Some issues are decent. Some are... well, less decent. But several issues featured some latter day Curt Swan art. Between this Superboy comic book and the odd Superman guest appearance (i.e., The Sinbad Contract circa 1990), that was my introduction to Curt Swan on Superman (or anything) because I grew up Post-Crisis. Superboy: The Comic Book was also my introduction to Mark Waid as a writer (which wasn't a bad story overall).

The big weakness of Superboy: The Comic Book was, iirc, that it came out between season 1 and season 2 of the show. Well, after season 1, the show got heavily retooled. Not as retooled as it would get later on, as we all know. But still, the changes were so significant that the status quo introduced in STCB #01 was obsolete the instant the first issue hit the stands.

Weren't there also tie-in comics for Arrow and Gustin's The Flash (neither of which existed when SN posted that)? Or is my memory playing tricks on me?

To actually contribute to the topic at hand (what a novel idea!), I'm kind of ashamed of myself for not contributing much of anything substantial to this thread/feature. For one of my favorite Batman films of all time, I would've thought I'd get off the bench for this. Hmm. I'll do some poking around and see if I can find anything SN might've overlooked.

[Silver Nemesis]

But there WAS a title called Superboy: The Comic Book, which was a tie-in to the late Eighties/early Nineties TV show. Some issues are decent. Some are... well, less decent. But several issues featured some latter day Curt Swan art. Between this Superboy comic book and the odd Superman guest appearance (i.e., The Sinbad Contract circa 1990), that was my introduction to Curt Swan on Superman (or anything) because I grew up Post-Crisis. Superboy: The Comic Book was also my introduction to Mark Waid as a writer (which wasn't a bad story overall).

The big weakness of Superboy: The Comic Book was, iirc, that it came out between season 1 and season 2 of the show. Well, after season 1, the show got heavily retooled. Not as retooled as it would get later on, as we all know. But still, the changes were so significant that the status quo introduced in STCB #01 was obsolete the instant the first issue hit the stands.

Weren't there also tie-in comics for Arrow and Gustin's The Flash (neither of which existed when SN posted that)? Or is my memory playing tricks on me?

I'd never heard of the Superboy tie-in until now. Would that make Superboy the first live action DC TV show to get an official comic? I know Jiro Kuwata's Bat-Manga series was heavily influenced by the Adam West show, but that was still technically its own universe and not a tie-in.

There have been many more tie-in comics since I posted that comment in 2011, which illustrates how the modern comic industry, like the modern film industry, is compensating for its lack of worthy new ideas by falling back on nostalgia. Since 2011 we've had the Batman '66, Wonder Woman '77, Superman '78 and Batman '89 comics, and there have been several comics connected to the DCEU and Arrowverse. Next we've got the Reevesverse Riddler prequel comic coming out.

Me, I'm still waiting for a Lois & Clark season 5 comic.

To actually contribute to the topic at hand (what a novel idea!), I'm kind of ashamed of myself for not contributing much of anything substantial to this thread/feature. For one of my favorite Batman films of all time, I would've thought I'd get off the bench for this. Hmm. I'll do some poking around and see if I can find anything SN might've overlooked.

Any additions would be welcome. I went into too much detail on certain things in this feature. Like listing examples of circus gangs, or all the times Selina used her nine lives. BatmAngelus politely pointed this out back when we were editing the feature, and in retrospect he was right. But in my defence, these were common criticisms that Nolan fans were levelling against BR at the time. I'd seen people complaining that the Batman in the comics fights realistic criminals, not circus gangs, and that Catwoman never had nine lives. I was trying to respond to those criticisms by showing that the film was consistent with the source material. Looking back at it now, the feature could probably benefit from some trimming.

It's a shame that all these years later we still can't get a quote confirming that any of these parallels were deliberate. Still, the writer of Demolition Man said "Oh sh*t!" in response to something I posted, and that makes the whole endeavour worthwhile.