Batman Returns and The Comics

[Paul (ral)]

Do you mean to imply that Jett knows a ton of other Limeys named Paul with strong opinions on Burton's Batman films???

"hmm, you americans all alike"





There is a difference between an irish accent and an english one 

PJ sounds like Chris Nolan to me  

[PJ]

Not me. My schedule wouldn't allow me to do either the B89 or BR podcasts. Shame, I was really looking forward to them. I have done a couple of the podcasts, but I'm referred to as 'PJ' so not to get to get confused with Paul.

Is the name calling really necessary?

[DocLathropBrown]

Yes, it absolutely is.

It's people like Jett (who have influence) that continue to create rifts in the fanbase, by pushing his OPINION (And that's ALL it is, there's not even a shred of truth to his Batman Returns statements) as fact. Stupid people (and there's plenty of them) are going to take what Jett says as some kind of fact.

[Paul (ral)]

Jett's opinion of BR is widely known so I don't really think it should come as a suprise to anyone or warrent name calling.

Regardless, I though Gregg did a great job of presenting the many great elements of BR in the face of such adversity 

[thecolorsblend]

There is a difference between an irish accent and an english one

True.

Not me

Oops.

Is the name calling really necessary?

I can appreciate that Jett is your friend and you don't take kindly to people badmouthing him.  It's just that I don't care, ya know?  The guy has arguably done more to foster bad blood in this whole Burtonite/Nolanite business than anybody else.

Besides, it's not like I talked smack about a member of this forum or anything.

[Gotham Knight]

For as someone who's that involved in the in fanbase as a whole to be that....misinformed biased, and snarky...yeah..it warrents name calling.

[thecolorsblend]

Name calling isnt usually necessary unless your in middle school arguing about who's better at something, I think Jett is a fat headed guy who thinks he's something special I dont agree with most of the things he says, but he has delivered alot of things for batman fans that no one else could and on that front I appreciate his effort, otherwise I could care less about him in any way.

Ah.  That's because you don't know him.

[GuedesGothamKnight]

Well, as for Jett's review of BR... BOF is really a great Batman news site and I like Jett's review, but his BR one goes totally against my perspective of the movie. He just talked about the bad aspects of the movie, and evn he good aspects were "bad" in his concept of the movie... what a lame! 

[TheBatMan0887]

To DarkVengence. A read.

I'm going to dissagree with "a burton film with batman characters in it".

Looking through all this, the better more reliable influences about this forum, Tim and the real story people put together what they did with the combination of elements they had.

No one needs to falsely defend it as Burtonized. So far, only CatWoman is not to source heavily, but by not stealing. You should also not judge on the set films as they were unfinished. While CatWoman had her origin and anger here in the film, she would get down to bussiness after her plot to kill Batman with peguin, the only reason much of her singular life is unshown.


Remember that the ultimate realism involved with Nolan's VASTLY changes origins and everything.

The only one who places "too abysmal or old to do" in front of our eyes is Nolan's. Oh yeah...LotR...not much major change from the past 40+ years it came out in. He can't do everyone and it cannot take over the comic universe fully without dissrupting it's more simple realism, which Burton at least had (fixing scars to make smile lock, burn and zombify skin pigments as well as die hair to color), which kept the more of the origins and characters overal.

After this, like Two-Face, Nolan used an Irish man with no real announcement to my knowledge on race in-movie, for an arabian. I found many similarities with Burtons in the style of accuracy and inaccuracy down to it being a race fix for Two-Face, removing the dark penguin people didn't know was partly correct and a switch of Joker with BatMan. BatMan's appearance with a re-imagined version of that Joker, now a darker Clockwork Orange-esque/other with light gags (from one book aside the teeth and glasses).

But it's still very dark. Look at how Joker sprays acid in the person he's dating's face and misses. If hit, we see how bad and evil he still is. She'd be an ugly obomination dying with Joker laughing in the mist or even mocking her with saying...AWWWW...what a shame (add laughter). He'd get up and leave like she was nothing. This is why many do not see the killing joke influence, they look only at this part with the gags, not the insanity and lack of care. They say it's back in forth and not in one direct theme, which is wrong.

You got Ducard missing too, which is huge, changes with Ra's Al Ghul which make him too strong an enemy (student vs master = new main enemy? new Joker?), any origin changed in the long run thus far, including BatMan's past...again. Really, it could balance it self out as there are things worth while to comic fans in each universe.

It is NOT this definite movie, but another BatMan that can be revised furtherly. It's still with using certain things as a cameo or something else, like the Killing Joke, which is only a wink with the scar stories or changing it to be Dent's origin entirely (character dosn't count as many novels portray a gritty Joker, and remember 2006's Joker).

However, note that due to BB and TDK, others will choose the route of the overly realistic tone and not accurate bits, like F4 did for Doom. Oh yeah, it was to rip the Spider-Man formula for a sure thing, yet the original could be fit in realistically as well. So, this means that out of popularity, they are not going to go for this type of thing Burton and Sam actually started the more of later on down the road.....


....panel recreations. Something I have't seen in many movies unless a pose. Sure Nolan's has em too and both of theirs aren't perfect with the comic (like year one with the ending of TDK), but i'm on equalizing out the lies and making them more equally the pictures in accuracy they are anyways. Even if Nolan's could be more similar, it's not by that big a margine as told. Alot is the "blah blah needs to be a collector" "no writer or story by guy exists" "don't know what a director does" to begin with, producer only is the line producer stuff. Sin City would be a sloppy mess without this success.

It would be the whole "your a nerd and all I do is better" crap from movie makers without the money showing it can work. Burton and Hamm was the door for this. Not many before that did a more respectfull recreation while being successful. It would wave in this era faster. Even SuperMan had addings to it not in the original, along with some cheesier sequels more on hollywood invension.


And now to make the perfect BatMan film...lets put Burton and Nolan's films and simutanously flicker them on a theartre screen...(creates the comic itself LOL)

[Silver Nemesis]

Just adding a few things.

Here's a picture illustrating the Penguin and Catwoman's short-lived alliance from 'The Catwoman's Black Magic!' (1966).



This story also featured a 'what did curiosity do to the cat' line.



And a nine lives pun, which was pretty typical of the era.



There was another story called 'The Case of the Purr-loined Pearl!' (Batman #210, 1969) which explored the nine lives concept. In this story Selina recruits eight recently paroled female criminals, dresses them in identical costumes and trains them to fight like her in order to create the illusion she has nine lives.




This story also marks an interesting example of the Pre-Crisis Catwoman wearing goggles like her contemporary counterpart does

Interestingly, some of Selina's near-death encounters from the movie have happened to other villains in the comics. In Batman #11, the caped crusader knocks the Joker off a roof. The Joker survives the fall by hitting several awnings on the way down.



In Batman #297 he knocked a criminal off a rocky outcrop, only for him to land in a truck full of sand and be carried safely away.



Michael Bair, who was the artist (inker) on Catwoman: Her Sister's Keeper, has some of the original artwork listed for sale on ComicArtFans.com. He more or less confirms the movie connection in the description for the page depicting Selina lying in the alley with the cats.

"This is the scene that was copied in both "Batman Returns" & "Catwoman" movies, where the dead body is surrounded by cats."

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=86134&GSub=12469

That comment, combined with the presence of two full pages from the comic in Michael Singer's Batman Returns: The Official Movie Book, removes any lingering doubt from my mind that this particular story was consciously referenced by the filmmakers.