Batman Returns and The Comics

[Paul (ral)]

The only fact is that it is a mighty impressive list of comparisons.

[The Dark Knight]

Indeed. It doesn't matter if you are told straight up or you find them by researching - the fact is that the are there.

[batass4880]

Even if they didn't consciously use some of the comics for reference, at least they knew the chemistry of the characters and how they would behave.

[Gotham Knight]

My only problem is that its too bad that Burton didnt use any of these references obviously and theyre just from die hard fans that took the time to do it, thats a fact.

The Fact that there is such an impressive list of comparisons makes it ludicrous to suggest that Burton and/or those involved the creative aspects of the film didn't purposefully use any of those presented. Obviously no one can prove one way or the other, but to claim outright coincidence in every comparison is more than far fetched, its angry fanboyism. Presented with the BB and/or TDK threads of this nature, I'm sure you?d proclaim loudly and proudly how they nailed everything and how NolanGod expressed each comparison purposefully.

[DarkVengeance]

The only reason I know they used exact references is because they gave what references they used, and in the se of BB on dvd it came with a comic with parts of different comics and graphic novels they used for influence on their story. They also mention the references on the extras on the dvd itself.

You guys can say its only my opinion, thats fine with me, all I know is Burton never mentioned any "DIRECT" references he used for either of his batman films (neither did Schumacher). Yet again people bring up my love for Nolan as if its anymore than my love for Burton, and yet again your WRONG, I will always love both equally, Im just stating from my knowledge what I see.

Can anyone say where on the SE versions of the Burton films where they ever once mention any comic of graphic novel reference other than "The Killing Joke" if you have, that you have one up on me, cause Ive watched those dvd extras in and out and never saw anything, thats probably because they didnt mention anything. Burton didnt need any comic references to make his batman films, he did what he wanted with his own vision (that yet again I AM NOT BASHING) and I am just stating what I see. This list of comparisons is amazing, and I commend someone for doing so much work that I did also enjoy, but Burton didnt do the same, and its quite obvious, he didnt have the time to do that, he had enough pressure when making 89 he had his vision and went with it.

Anyone that watches BR can see that Burton did not concern himself with the comics at all, and Daniel Waters flat out states that on the SE extras for BR. Burton had his vision, went with it, and thats what film we got. Im not saying I dont like the film because its not comic accurate at all, but when Tim Burton flat out says "Anyone that knows me, knows that I would not read a comic book" that pretty much says it all. It dosent make me love the film any less, I just compare how truly comic accuarate something was (set out to make not compared more than 10 years later by fans attempting to find the comic references), than other comic book films with PURPOSELY DIRECT references to specific comics in a specific era, or a graphic novel.

It seems everytime someone has something to say about Burtons films wether they love them or not they're automatically a "raging fanboy" or the ridiculous "Nolanite", it just makes me laugh because someone that can love two different things equally and still critique them, is a much more open minded person than someone, who automatically has a specific term or name for that such person, overall it makes everyone seem pretty ignorant, just because someone dosent praise every single thing a specific director has done with one specific film. Im allowed to critique things I love, nothing is perfect, and thats what makes it so great for me.

[BatmAngelus]

In terms of what people behind these films said they read:
On the '89 SE DVD, Danny Elfman mentions reading The Dark Knight Returns to set the tone and I believe the producers do mention wanting to bring the character back to his roots from the 1939 comics and showing shots from those comics. 
There are citations on Benjamin Robinson's thesis of behind-the-scenes articles where the '39 comics were mentioned, though I'd have to check the paper again to be sure.  I believe Uslan himself said in an interview that he gave them to Burton to read.
http://www.batmanmovieonline.com/features.php?display=1

Michael Keaton also mentions reading TDKR in Les Daniels's Complete History of Batman book. 
The introduction to The Greatest Batman Stories Ever Told Vol. 1 with the Alex Ross cover also cites Englehart's "Night of the Stalker" as a comic Uslan gave to Burton to read.
Uslan has also cited Steve Englehart's run as influential and even let Englehart write two treatments for the film.

In terms of Batman Returns and the comics...well, there's a reason why I titled this "Batman Returns and the Comics" rather than the others "Influences of Batman (1989)," etc.  It is well documented in articles, as well as Robinson's thesis essay, that Burton and company wanted to pursue their own vision. 

However, these are the same people who read those comics that influenced B89 and there are also similarities between those comics and Batman Returns.  How could I resist?

Am I saying that those comics- the 1939 ones, TDKR, The Killing Joke, Englehart's ones- trickled down, in influence, from B89 to BR? 
Not necessarily.  Those presented in here are possibilities, as stated.

I think it's also possible that a director and writer can come across something that was done in a comic they've never read.

But of course, I think we all agree- intentional or not, it doesn't make us like the films any less. 

[DarkVengeance]

Batmangelus, I agree with everything you stated, and I was 100% targeting BR and not 89, cause I know from plenty of sources that Burton was handed material from the comics and graphic novels for that film.

Yet again this reason does not make me like BR any less than any of the other bat-films, but bringing up references now more than 10 years later does not mean that Burton and co. actually used them, because its pretty evident they did not use any specific references.

[BatmAngelus]

I was 100% targeting BR and not 89, cause I know from plenty of sources that Burton was handed material from the comics and graphic novels for that film.

Perfectly understood.
To be fair, though, you did ask about mentions on the SEs of "the Burton films" about comic book references.

Plus, I felt like citing sources in case they weren't previously mentioned, haha.

[DarkVengeance]

I was 100% targeting BR and not 89, cause I know from plenty of sources that Burton was handed material from the comics and graphic novels for that film.

Perfectly understood.
To be fair, though, you did ask about mentions on the SEs of "the Burton films" about comic book references.

Plus, I felt like citing sources in case they weren't previously mentioned, haha.

Well I said I might have missed something and if so, someone has the upper hand on me, regardless of how many times I watch something, I always do miss something, so when I stand corrected I bow to whoever sets me right.

[BatmAngelus]

I'm bumping this to request that the Batman Returns feature on the website be updated with Silver Nemesis's latest posts  .