Batman Returns and The Comics

[The Dark Knight]

It's a shame that all these years later we still can't get a quote confirming that any of these parallels were deliberate. Still, the writer of Demolition Man said "Oh sh*t!" in response to something I posted, and that makes the whole endeavour worthwhile.

Even if every single comic similarity in the Burton films was achieved by pure chance it doesn't change the fact the parallels are there. It would be like being ignorant of the waypoints explorers of yesteryear took, but making the exact same decisions on your own as they're the right ones to make. You're channeling their same pioneering spirit and equaling them, which is an even higher achievement than simple referencing.

[Kamdan]

It's a shame that all these years later we still can't get a quote confirming that any of these parallels were deliberate. Still, the writer of Demolition Man said "Oh sh*t!" in response to something I posted, and that makes the whole endeavour worthwhile.

I'm sure some were deliberate but for people like Waters, they're only truly in the moment when they're writing. Once their job is over, they move onto the next project and channel their energy into that. I always compare us fans asking questions like these to creators as though someone asked us about the papers we had to write in school.

[Silver Nemesis]

Even if every single comic similarity in the Burton films was achieved by pure chance it doesn't change the fact the parallels are there. It would be like being ignorant of the waypoints explorers of yesteryear took, but making the exact same decisions on your own as they're the right ones to make. You're channeling their same pioneering spirit and equaling them, which is an even higher achievement than simple referencing.

I'm sure some were deliberate but for people like Waters, they're only truly in the moment when they're writing. Once their job is over, they move onto the next project and channel their energy into that. I always compare us fans asking questions like these to creators as though someone asked us about the papers we had to write in school.

This is all true. If nothing else, we know that Hamm had read the comics, and he's credited with co-writing the film's story.

The fact Hamm used Penguin's original Golden Age name, Boniface, proves that the plot similarities with Detective Comics V1 #58 weren't coincidental. Furthermore, two pages from Catwoman: Her Sister's Keeper depicting the scene where Catwoman claws Batman after their first rooftop fight, which strongly resemble their first costumed battle in the finished film, were reprinted on page 17 of Michael Singer's Batman Returns: The Official Movie Book.

And Michael Singer is listed on the end credits of Batman Returns as 'unit publicist'. So the film's marketing team were certainly aware of the similarities between that comic and the movie, even if Waters wasn't.

Catwoman: Her Sister's Keeper was also reissued as a trade paperback to coincide with the release of Batman Returns in 1992, and the blurb of this edition directly references the movie:

Tie into the excitement and interest generated by the release of the blockbuster motion picture Batman Returns--which features Catwoman (played by Michelle Pfeiffer)--with this graphic novel about Batman's feline adversary. Batman was the top-grossing film of 1989, and the book Batman has more than 1.3 million copies in print.

Catwoman Volume 1 artist Michael Bair also posted the original art work for the page where Selina is lying in the alleyway with the cats on ComicArtFans, and in his description he stated that this scene was adapted in Batman Returns: https://www.comicartfans.com/gallerypiece.asp?piece=86134

So there is some evidence to suggest the parallels were conscious. I'd just like someone from the movie's production team to acknowledge it. But as TDK says, the parallels exist whether they were deliberate or not. And that's the important thing.

[Kamdan]

So there is some evidence to suggest the parallels were conscious. I'd just like someone from the movie's production team to acknowledge it. But as TDK says, the parallels exist whether they were deliberate or not. And that's the important thing.

I'm sure in Waters case (as it is with many screenwriters adapting comics) would be writing out a basic plot line with appropriate character motivations and story details would be filled in with inspirations from selected comics from DC's archives, hence why there are a notable amount of similarities. It's been pointed out that Mario Puzo spent a lot of time reading through back issues provided by DC back when he was writing Superman. I'm sure this option was open for Waters and Hamm.

I can speak from personal angle that I've implored a similar method in my own adaptations. Similar to my analogy of writing school papers, it is a good idea to keep a list of sources so that we don't we commit an act of plagiarism, which was never very clear to me when I was in school. To me, plagiarism is directly copying and pasting some thing and claiming it to be your own. Adaptations are another animal all together as it is not using it the same dialogue or context. Waters likely reacted the way he did because he probably did see those panels and used them for inspiration and if you don't make a note of your source, it can become your own in your later recollections.

Writers also have to be careful in these areas because it could be used as citation for a lawsuit. James Cameron experience that with Terminator when he cited Outer Limits episodes as his inspiration and Harlan Ellison jumped on that with how his work closely resembled Cameron's. This was something Cameron made sure he acknowledged for Avatar and cited Dances with Wolves writer Michael Blake in the credits to avoid another similar situation.

[thecolorsblend]

I'd never heard of the Superboy tie-in until now. Would that make Superboy the first live action DC TV show to get an official comic?

Could be. One of the selling points of SBTCB is the Kevin Maguire covers. I had never seen his art before (because I wasn't following Justice League at the time). But a lot of those old Superboy covers that Maguire did are amazing. Strangely enough, a lot of Maguire fans are totally unaware of his Superboy covers, so it's always a treat for them when they discover them.

Any additions would be welcome. I went into too much detail on certain things in this feature. Like listing examples of circus gangs, or all the times Selina used her nine lives. BatmAngelus politely pointed this out back when we were editing the feature, and in retrospect he was right. But in my defence, these were common criticisms that Nolan fans were levelling against BR at the time. I'd seen people complaining that the Batman in the comics fights realistic criminals, not circus gangs, and that Catwoman never had nine lives. I was trying to respond to those criticisms by showing that the film was consistent with the source material. Looking back at it now, the feature could probably benefit from some trimming.

The reason that the Nolan bunch throw fewer barbs at BR these days might be precisely because of your feature. Trimming that stuff out could create room to reignite the old controversies all over again.

There's a lot to be said for keeping the feature as is.

As TDK mentioned, it kind of doesn't matter whether or not the similarities between the comics and the Burton films are intentional. Because either way, it says that the creative types behind the Burton films were dialed in when it comes to the source material. In a way, it speaks even more highly of them if the similarities are totally coincidental.

[The Dark Knight]

Even though the comic references are there, BR throws people off given the manner in which Tim presented it all. It leads people to think Burton didn't understand the characters and was simply indulging himself. The ambience is so pervasive that some will not be convinced of its connection to the material. It's so much a Burton film but it's also so much a Batman film, which is what makes it so uniquely impressive.

[Silver Nemesis]

Writers also have to be careful in these areas because it could be used as citation for a lawsuit. James Cameron experience that with Terminator when he cited Outer Limits episodes as his inspiration and Harlan Ellison jumped on that with how his work closely resembled Cameron's. This was something Cameron made sure he acknowledged for Avatar and cited Dances with Wolves writer Michael Blake in the credits to avoid another similar situation.

This reminds me of a story I heard about J K Rowling's first book signing in the US. Huge lines of people showed up for her autograph, but every now and then someone would present her with an envelope to sign instead of a book. Whenever this happened, security would step in to escort the person out of the line. Eventually Rowling asked what the deal was with the envelopes, and it was explained to her that they each contained a written idea concerning a potential plot point that might occur in a future Harry Potter book. If she then happened to use that idea in one of her novels, the owner of the envelope would sue her. And he/she would have Rowling's signature and fingerprints on the envelope to prove that she'd handled their idea.

Could be. One of the selling points of SBTCB is the Kevin Maguire covers. I had never seen his art before (because I wasn't following Justice League at the time). But a lot of those old Superboy covers that Maguire did are amazing. Strangely enough, a lot of Maguire fans are totally unaware of his Superboy covers, so it's always a treat for them when they discover them.

It's weird that this series isn't better known. I've been looking at the covers on Comic Vine, and they're really good. It's the sort of forgotten series I'd buy if it was reprinted in a modern collection. There were only 17 issues, so they could probably fit the whole series in just one or two volumes. Curt Swan's involvement alone would be enough to draw interest from Superman fans who didn't get a chance to read these comics when they were first published.

I must sit down and watch the Superboy series right the way through some time. I remember watching it back when it first aired in the late eighties, and I saw some episodes on YouTube a few years ago. But I still haven't seen most of them.

Even though the comic references are there, BR throws people off given the manner in which Tim presented it all. It leads people to think Burton didn't understand the characters and was simply indulging himself. The ambience is so pervasive that some will not be convinced of its connection to the material. It's so much a Burton film but it's also so much a Batman film, which is what makes it so uniquely impressive.

True. Many of the most interesting comic book adaptations, whether films or TV shows, are the ones where the makers put a distinctive idiosyncratic spin on the material. Unfortunately haters can use that idiosyncratic style as an easy point of attack. The important thing is whether or not the essence of the material is intact, and whether it's interesting and memorable. In the case of Batman Returns, I'd say the essence of the characters remains true to the source material, and the idiosyncratic elements are definitely interesting.

[eledoremassis02]

Batman being chased by police after being mistaken as a murder
Detective comics no.36 Feb 1940