Comic Book Influences on Tim Burton's Batman (1989)

[Silver Nemesis]

Sam Hamm gave an interview with Back Issue magazine in May concerning the 1989 film's 30th anniversary. 13th Dimension posted a fairly lengthy extract in which Hamm discusses the comic book influences on the film. This is probably the most in-depth discussion on the subject I've read from anyone connected with the film's production, though it basically just confirms what Michael Uslan has already said.

When asked about the 1989 film, Hamm specifically cites 'The Man Behind the Red Hood!' (Detective Comics Vol 1 #168, February 1951) and 'The Joker's Five-Way Revenge!' (Detective Comics Vol 1 #251, September 1973) as influences on his screenplay. When asked about The Dark Knight Returns, he says that only the first two issues had been printed at the time he and Burton began working on the film. But he says they were sent B&W copies of the unpublished chapters, and that he did appropriate certain elements from the story: specifically the image of Batman riding on horseback (in the deleted Robin sequence) and the idea of Batman using the emblem on his chest to draw gunfire away from his head. He also confirms that DC sent him and Burton the Englehart/Rogers run, but says it didn't influence them much beyond the portrayal of Gotham being run my mobsters (which more or less confirms the Rupert Thorne/Carl Grissom connection that Englehart himself has put forth). At one point the interviewer mentions the apparent influence of 'The Case of the Chemical Syndicate' (Detective Comics Vol 1 #27, May 1939) on the film, but Hamm neither confirms nor denies this. He does however deny Year One being an influence, stating that it hadn't yet been published at the time he was working on the film.

You can read the full extract from the interview here: https://13thdimension.com/sam-hamm-the-comic-books-that-inspired-batman-89/

Hamm discussed the comic influence again in August during an interview with Comics Alliance:

We wanted to do a "dark" Batman from the outset. Although we didn't consciously model our version on a particular storyline from the comics, I would probably cite the Denny O'Neil stories from the early '70s, like "The Joker's Five-Way Revenge", as an important tonal influence. Denny was plainly trying to reclaim the mystery of Batman and the homicidal insanity of the Joker, and he had lots of help from Neal Adams, Jim Aparo, et al.

I also have to mention Giant Batman Annual #3, featuring Batman and Robin's Most Fantastic Foes, which made a huge impression on me as a kid. The older stories reprinted from the thirties and forties ran a bit more toward the lurid side than the relatively tame, post-Comics Code product I was used to. I loved Gorilla Boss, the crime lord who had his brain transplanted into the body of an ape, and of course Two-Face, the D.A. disfigured by an acid-throwing witness in mid-trial. There's a lot of Two-Face in my version of the Joker.

We were excited by the "revisionist" stories such as Dark Knight Returns, which was just coming out as we began work on the movie, and The Killing Joke, which followed a bit later, although there were only stray bits and pieces we could borrow from them.  At that particular moment there was a weird recrudescence of interest in Batman...we knew something was burbling under the surface, but of course we couldn't foresee the cultural phenomenon we were about to become part of.

https://comicsalliance.com/sam-hamm-interview-batman-89-tim-burton/

The part about the 1989 Joker being influenced by the comic book Two-Face is particularly interesting. I'd not heard that before. I'll have to see if I can identify some of those influences in the movie.

Now if we could only get some quotes about the comic influences on Batman Returns. If someone who worked on the film could just confirm Detective Comics Vol 1 #58 and Catwoman: Her Sister's Keeper as influences, I'll be content.

[BatmanFurst]

Sam Hamm gave an interview with Back Issue magazine in May concerning the 1989 film's 30th anniversary. 13th Dimension posted a fairly lengthy extract in which Hamm discusses the comic book influences on the film. This is probably the most in-depth discussion on the subject I've read from anyone connected with the film's production, though it basically just confirms what Michael Uslan has already said.

When asked about the 1989 film, Hamm specifically cites 'The Man Behind the Red Hood!' (Detective Comics Vol 1 #168, February 1951) and 'The Joker's Five-Way Revenge!' (Detective Comics Vol 1 #251, September 1973) as influences on his screenplay. When asked about The Dark Knight Returns, he says that only the first two issues had been printed at the time he and Burton began working on the film. But he says they were sent B&W copies of the unpublished chapters, and that he did appropriate certain elements from the story: specifically the image of Batman riding on horseback (in the deleted Robin sequence) and the idea of Batman using the emblem on his chest to draw gunfire away from his head. He also confirms that DC sent him and Burton the Englehart/Rogers run, but says it didn't influence them much beyond the portrayal of Gotham being run my mobsters (which more or less confirms the Rupert Thorne/Carl Grissom connection that Englehart himself has put forth). At one point the interviewer mentions the apparent influence of 'The Case of the Chemical Syndicate' (Detective Comics Vol 1 #27, May 1939) on the film, but Hamm neither confirms nor denies this. He does however deny Year One being an influence, stating that it hadn't yet been published at the time he was working on the film.

You can read the full extract from the interview here: https://13thdimension.com/sam-hamm-the-comic-books-that-inspired-batman-89/

Hamm discussed the comic influence again in August during an interview with Comics Alliance:

We wanted to do a "dark" Batman from the outset. Although we didn't consciously model our version on a particular storyline from the comics, I would probably cite the Denny O'Neil stories from the early '70s, like "The Joker's Five-Way Revenge", as an important tonal influence. Denny was plainly trying to reclaim the mystery of Batman and the homicidal insanity of the Joker, and he had lots of help from Neal Adams, Jim Aparo, et al.

I also have to mention Giant Batman Annual #3, featuring Batman and Robin's Most Fantastic Foes, which made a huge impression on me as a kid. The older stories reprinted from the thirties and forties ran a bit more toward the lurid side than the relatively tame, post-Comics Code product I was used to. I loved Gorilla Boss, the crime lord who had his brain transplanted into the body of an ape, and of course Two-Face, the D.A. disfigured by an acid-throwing witness in mid-trial. There's a lot of Two-Face in my version of the Joker.

We were excited by the "revisionist" stories such as Dark Knight Returns, which was just coming out as we began work on the movie, and The Killing Joke, which followed a bit later, although there were only stray bits and pieces we could borrow from them.  At that particular moment there was a weird recrudescence of interest in Batman...we knew something was burbling under the surface, but of course we couldn't foresee the cultural phenomenon we were about to become part of.

https://comicsalliance.com/sam-hamm-interview-batman-89-tim-burton/

The part about the 1989 Joker being influenced by the comic book Two-Face is particularly interesting. I'd not heard that before. I'll have to see if I can identify some of those influences in the movie.

Now if we could only get some quotes about the comic influences on Batman Returns. If someone who worked on the film could just confirm Detective Comics Vol 1 #58 and Catwoman: Her Sister's Keeper as influences, I'll be content.

So I'm a little confused here. I've always justified Batman's actions in this movie as being an accurate depiction of the characters first year in the comics prior to Robin. However, Sam Hamm seemingly isn't bringing those references up as an inspiration on the film. So is Batman in this movie not inspired by that first year prior to Robin's introduction?

Also, I'm a little confused with him saying that the Belfrey sequence was always in the script. For years I've always heard that that was a last minute change inspired by Nicholson and Peter's going to an Opera.

[Silver Nemesis]

So I'm a little confused here. I've always justified Batman's actions in this movie as being an accurate depiction of the characters first year in the comics prior to Robin. However, Sam Hamm seemingly isn't bringing those references up as an inspiration on the film. So is Batman in this movie not inspired by that first year prior to Robin's introduction?

I think so. The characterisation of Batman in the 1989 film is closer to the original 1939-1940 Kane/Finger run than any other era of the comics. In these interviews, Hamm seems to be focusing on stories that he specifically referenced in his original script. We know that the 1939-1940 run was an influence on the 1989 film, as producer Michael Uslan has confirmed showing those comics to Burton when providing him with research materials. Kane himself was also a consultant throughout the production of the movie. So while the 1939-1940 stories might not have inspired specific elements in Hamm's 1986 script – although I'm pretty sure the opening act was influenced by 'The Case of the Chemical Syndicate' – they certainly did inform the overall tone of the finished movie.

Hamm also doesn't mention The Killing Joke in these interviews (hardly surprising, since it was published two years after he wrote his draft), but we know Burton was given an advanced copy of that story and supposedly carried it around with him on set. Warren Skaaren mentioned Bob Kane and The Killing Joke when discussing the source material in Comics Scene #14 (August 1990), though he didn't explicitly confirm the influence of the early pre-Robin stories:

"I read them [the comics] sort of moderately. I wasn't a complete fanatic. I liked them, but I was a country kid, so I was more likely trying to look at a muskrat somewhere than read a comic. After I finished writing Batman, somebody sent me The Killing Joke. It was brilliant, but I thought it was a little too mean for what we were doing.

"DC Comics never voiced any opinion while I was writing it, but I did get notes from Bob Kane a couple times. He would read the script and send me notes, which was nice. I never met him on the set, but I did meet him at the film's premiere. I wouldn't have missed that for the world!"

But just because Hamm doesn't cite those early stories as influencing his script, doesn't mean they didn't influence other key creative figures in the film's production (e.g. Burton, Uslan, Skaaren).

Also, I'm a little confused with him saying that the Belfrey sequence was always in the script. For years I've always heard that that was a last minute change inspired by Nicholson and Peter's going to an Opera.

Hamm's original draft (dated October 20th 1986) also features a showdown in the cathedral belfry, but it's very different from the one in the finished film. In the original script the Joker shoots down the Batwing using a tank that was hidden inside one of his parade floats. Batman is rescued from the burning wreckage by Dick Grayson. Dick then grabs a gun and tries to confront the Joker in the cathedral, but Batman renders him unconscious using a poisoned shuriken.

Batman, who is far more badly injured in the original script than in the finished film, pops some painkillers from his utility belt and pursues the Joker to the top of the cathedral where he collapses, practically dead. Batman gets his second wind in the finished film and is able to resume fighting, but that doesn't happen in the original script. Instead Bruce is suicidal in Hamm's draft and has previously installed an explosive device on his utility belt with which he intends to kill both himself and the Joker. The Joker drags Batman's semiconscious body into the belfry and removes his mask to reveal Bruce Wayne's features underneath. There then follows some dialogue which references The Dark Knight Returns:

The Joker hears his helicopter approaching and draws a razor blade. He's about to slit Bruce's throat when he notices the bomb timer on Batman's utility belt. Batman grabs hold of him, but the Joker breaks free and leaps from the belfry to grab hold of the ladder dangling from the helicopter outside. The downdraft from the helicopter disturbs some bats that are nesting in the belfry and they swarm around the Joker, causing him to lose his grip and fall to his doom. Batman then decides not to die and hurls his utility belt onto the bottom rung of the helicopter ladder where it detonates.

Warren Skaaren's rewrite (dated October 8th 1988) is the one they were meant to be shooting, but even that version differs from the finished film. In Skaaren's script Vicki is not present for the finale. Instead Batman pursues the Joker as far as the belfry trapdoor, then uses his grapple line to climb outside the tower and sneak up on his opponent. Following some back and forth dialogue (roughly half of which made it into the finished film), the Joker attacks Batman with a bell and almost knocks him off the belfry parapet. The Joker then tries to hide in the shadows while he waits for his helicopter to arrive, but Batman sneaks up on him and handcuffs the two of them together. Joker sprays acid on the handcuffs, and he and Batman fight while they wait for the cuffs to melt. The Joker breaks free, picks up a wooden 2 by 4 and uses it to beat Batman into submission. The Joker then makes a dash for the helicopter ladder while Bruce activates a sonic device on his utility belt (a possible Year One reference, since this draft was written after that story's publication). This rouses the bats nesting in the belfry so that they swarm around the Joker as he dangles from the ladder. Batman grabs hold of the Joker and following a brief struggle next to a gargoyle they both fall towards the city streets below. Batman saves himself using his grapple gun while the Joker plummets to his death.

This was then followed by the scene where Knox is found on the cathedral steps beneath Batman's cape, which was apparently filmed but cut from the movie.

What's interesting about Skaaren's draft is that although it differs from the finished film, it features most of the sets and props used in the final sequence: the belfry set with the trapdoor, parapet and broken wooden boards; the gargoyle, the helicopter with the rope ladder, the Joker's acid flower, Batman's grapple gun. All that's missing in the finished movie is the swarm of bats and the handcuffs.

As for Nicholson and Peters wanting the ending changed, perhaps it was their idea to incorporate Vicki into the belfry sequence?

[BatmanFurst]

So I'm a little confused here. I've always justified Batman's actions in this movie as being an accurate depiction of the characters first year in the comics prior to Robin. However, Sam Hamm seemingly isn't bringing those references up as an inspiration on the film. So is Batman in this movie not inspired by that first year prior to Robin's introduction?

I think so. The characterisation of Batman in the 1989 film is closer to the original 1939-1940 Kane/Finger run than any other era of the comics. In these interviews, Hamm seems to be focusing on stories that he specifically referenced in his original script. We know that the 1939-1940 run was an influence on the 1989 film, as producer Michael Uslan has confirmed showing those comics to Burton when providing him with research materials. Kane himself was also a consultant throughout the production of the movie. So while the 1939-1940 stories might not have inspired specific elements in Hamm's 1986 script – although I'm pretty sure the opening act was influenced by 'The Case of the Chemical Syndicate' – they certainly did inform the overall tone of the finished movie.

Hamm also doesn't mention The Killing Joke in these interviews (hardly surprising, since it was published two years after he wrote his draft), but we know Burton was given an advanced copy of that story and supposedly carried it around with him on set. Warren Skaaren mentioned Bob Kane and The Killing Joke when discussing the source material in Comics Scene #14 (August 1990), though he didn't explicitly confirm the influence of the early pre-Robin stories:

"I read them [the comics] sort of moderately. I wasn't a complete fanatic. I liked them, but I was a country kid, so I was more likely trying to look at a muskrat somewhere than read a comic. After I finished writing Batman, somebody sent me The Killing Joke. It was brilliant, but I thought it was a little too mean for what we were doing.

"DC Comics never voiced any opinion while I was writing it, but I did get notes from Bob Kane a couple times. He would read the script and send me notes, which was nice. I never met him on the set, but I did meet him at the film's premiere. I wouldn't have missed that for the world!"

But just because Hamm doesn't cite those early stories as influencing his script, doesn't mean they didn't influence other key creative figures in the film's production (e.g. Burton, Uslan, Skaaren).

Also, I'm a little confused with him saying that the Belfrey sequence was always in the script. For years I've always heard that that was a last minute change inspired by Nicholson and Peter's going to an Opera.

Hamm's original draft (dated October 20th 1986) also features a showdown in the cathedral belfry, but it's very different from the one in the finished film. In the original script the Joker shoots down the Batwing using a tank that was hidden inside one of his parade floats. Batman is rescued from the burning wreckage by Dick Grayson. Dick then grabs a gun and tries to confront the Joker in the cathedral, but Batman renders him unconscious using a poisoned shuriken.

Batman, who is far more badly injured in the original script than in the finished film, pops some painkillers from his utility belt and pursues the Joker to the top of the cathedral where he collapses, practically dead. Batman gets his second wind in the finished film and is able to resume fighting, but that doesn't happen in the original script. Instead Bruce is suicidal in Hamm's draft and has previously installed an explosive device on his utility belt with which he intends to kill both himself and the Joker. The Joker drags Batman's semiconscious body into the belfry and removes his mask to reveal Bruce Wayne's features underneath. There then follows some dialogue which references The Dark Knight Returns:

The Joker hears his helicopter approaching and draws a razor blade. He's about to slit Bruce's throat when he notices the bomb timer on Batman's utility belt. Batman grabs hold of him, but the Joker breaks free and leaps from the belfry to grab hold of the ladder dangling from the helicopter outside. The downdraft from the helicopter disturbs some bats that are nesting in the belfry and they swarm around the Joker, causing him to lose his grip and fall to his doom. Batman then decides not to die and hurls his utility belt onto the bottom rung of the helicopter ladder where it detonates.

Warren Skaaren's rewrite (dated October 8th 1988) is the one they were meant to be shooting, but even that version differs from the finished film. In Skaaren's script Vicki is not present for the finale. Instead Batman pursues the Joker as far as the belfry trapdoor, then uses his grapple line to climb outside the tower and sneak up on his opponent. Following some back and forth dialogue (roughly half of which made it into the finished film), the Joker attacks Batman with a bell and almost knocks him off the belfry parapet. The Joker then tries to hide in the shadows while he waits for his helicopter to arrive, but Batman sneaks up on him and handcuffs the two of them together. Joker sprays acid on the handcuffs, and he and Batman fight while they wait for the cuffs to melt. The Joker breaks free, picks up a wooden 2 by 4 and uses it to beat Batman into submission. The Joker then makes a dash for the helicopter ladder while Bruce activates a sonic device on his utility belt (a possible Year One reference, since this draft was written after that story's publication). This rouses the bats nesting in the belfry so that they swarm around the Joker as he dangles from the ladder. Batman grabs hold of the Joker and following a brief struggle next to a gargoyle they both fall towards the city streets below. Batman saves himself using his grapple gun while the Joker plummets to his death.

This was then followed by the scene where Knox is found on the cathedral steps beneath Batman's cape, which was apparently filmed but cut from the movie.

What's interesting about Skaaren's draft is that although it differs from the finished film, it features most of the sets and props used in the final sequence: the belfry set with the trapdoor, parapet and broken wooden boards; the gargoyle, the helicopter with the rope ladder, the Joker's acid flower, Batman's grapple gun. All that's missing in the finished movie is the swarm of bats and the handcuffs.

As for Nicholson and Peters wanting the ending changed, perhaps it was their idea to incorporate Vicki into the belfry sequence?

Thanks for the detailed response! There's also another quote that led me to believe that 89 Batman was based on those early comics. On the DVD documentary for the film Hamm states "The idea that interested us the most was to go back to the original Bob Kane notion, and we thought that that was the version that would give us sort of the most antre to the story which we wanted to tell, to go kind of dark mysterioso myth, that we could also say that we're going back to the roots of the character, you know, were kind of peeling away all the detours the character's taken over the years and trying to zero in on what this original concept was." That makes it pretty clear to me that this was a project that was intended to get back to the roots of the character. When taken as that certain character decisions make a lot more sense. Batman in the 89 film kills and uses guns because that's how the character was in that first year. The same goes for the lack of a relationship between Gordon and Batman.

In a way the film is an amalgamation of all the different eras of Batman up until the late 80's. The Batman character is meant to be Kane/Fingers original vision for the character. The Jokers scheme is a nod to Dennis O'Neil, and they include the Corto Maltese/Martha's pearls which is a nod to Frank Miller.

Good to hear about the Belfrey sequence. I know some have criticized it as being tacked on specifically because of the whole Nicholson/Peters opera story. I've never had a problem with it personally. I like that the Cathedral is set up at the beginning of the film with Batman atop of it, and then it comes back for the climatic fight at the end. It feels like the film has come full circle in that regard. Also, I think Batman stopping the Joker with the gadget in the film is better than the bats attacking him.

[thecolorsblend]

I agree, the cathedral thing never bothered me as a kid. I wouldn't have been able to put it this way as a kid but I like how operatic it is. Obviously Elfman's music is a key ingredient to that.

I also like how the movie builds up to it. It begins with Batman on a rooftop high above the city taking out the thugs. It's a good introductory moment for Batman but it's also a pretty impersonal situation for him. He's probably done that sort of thing dozens of times before the movie begins.

The movie ends with Batman in a cathedral high above the city taking out the Joker's thugs and, finally, the Joker himself. It's a good climax for Batman because it's so intensely personal for him. By that stage in the film, Burton had gradually built up the operatic largesse that the cathedral sequence pays off. Batman and the Joker were on a collision course and it's impossible to make their final showdown too big, too grand, too ambitious, too grandiose.

Vicki needed to be there to give whatever's left of Bruce Wayne a personal stake in defeating the Joker. Vengeance is driving Batman at that point but so is love -- or something comparable to it.

[The Dark Knight]

Silver really is the GOAT when it comes to research. Reading through the drafts shows just how different things could've been. I'm thankful the finished film is what it is, because in all respects it's better. Batman is weakened but not near death or suicidal, giving us those goon encounters on top of a Joker scene. It allows Batman to be purely heroic, and I think that's what the sequence needed. Unmasking also seems counterproductive, as they made each other into the costumed characters they resemble in the scene.

[Silver Nemesis]

There's also another quote that led me to believe that 89 Batman was based on those early comics. On the DVD documentary for the film Hamm states "The idea that interested us the most was to go back to the original Bob Kane notion, and we thought that that was the version that would give us sort of the most antre to the story which we wanted to tell, to go kind of dark mysterioso myth, that we could also say that we're going back to the roots of the character, you know, were kind of peeling away all the detours the character's taken over the years and trying to zero in on what this original concept was." That makes it pretty clear to me that this was a project that was intended to get back to the roots of the character.

That would be an excellent quote to include if we ever update the Batman '89 comic influences feature.

I'm thankful the finished film is what it is, because in all respects it's better. Batman is weakened but not near death or suicidal, giving us those goon encounters on top of a Joker scene. It allows Batman to be purely heroic, and I think that's what the sequence needed. Unmasking also seems counterproductive, as they made each other into the costumed characters they resemble in the scene.

Agreed. The finale in the finished film improves on the scripted versions in every way. It adds more humour, it adds more action, and it elevates Batman's motivation above simple revenge by adding Vicki to the mix. It's one of my favourite scenes in the entire film, and the cathedral set is probably my favourite location in the 1989 Gotham.

Returning to the subject of comic influences, I always assumed the mirror scene in the 1989 movie was based on the moment from The Killing Joke where the Joker sees his reflection for the first time and starts laughing maniacally. There's also a similar scene in 'The Man Behind the Red Hood!'

But in light of Hamm's quote about his Joker being influenced by the comic book Two-Face, it seems more likely that this scene was inspired by the following panels from 'The Crimes of Two-Face' (Detective Comics Vol 1 #66, August 1942).

There's a scene later in the story where Two-Face is looking in another mirror, which he then smashes.

The mirror scene in the finished film is pretty much identical to the scene as Hamm wrote it in his 1986 script, except that in the screenplay the doctor suggests the possibility of reconstructive surgery. Note that the doctor also mentions reconstructive surgery in one of the above comic panels from Detective Comics Vol 1 #66.

Something I've been meaning to post about for a while now is the origin of the plot twist about the Joker killing Batman's parents. More specifically, I wanted to address the question of who first came up with the idea. I've mentioned in other threads that the Joker/Jack Napier has been depicted as the killer of Batman's parents in Elseworlds stories such as Batman: Dark Joker the Wild (1994) and Batman: Detective No. 27 (2003). But was the 1989 movie the first story to feature this twist? Who thought of it first? And does it have a precedent in the comics?

In his interview with Comics Scene #14 (August 1990), screenwriter Warren Skaaren claims that he was the one who came up with the idea of the Joker killing Thomas and Martha Wayne:

It's certainly true that this plot point was not present in Sam Hamm's 1986 draft, but apparently it was present in an even earlier treatment – one written by none other than Tim Burton and Julie Hickson. I haven't read this treatment myself (dated October 21st 1985), but according to BatmAngelus's report it features the Joker killing Thomas and Martha Wayne during a drive-by shooting involving an ice cream van.

http://www.batman-online.com/features/2010/7/25/analysis-of-the-1985-burton-hickson-treatment

The earlier 1983 Tom Mankiewicz script has the Joker witness the Waynes' murder through a window, but still retains Joe Chill as the one who actually kills them. So does this mean that Burton and Hickson were the first writers to come up with the idea of the Joker killing Batman's parents?

Actually, no. Believe it or not, the earliest story to depict the Joker killing Batman's parents is a Silver Age comic written by Jim Shooter. Granted, the Batman in this story is not Bruce Wayne, but the issue nevertheless serves as a precedent to the revenge angle in the 1989 film.

The comic in question is 'The Danger of the Deadly Duo!' (World's Finest Vol 1 #166, May 1967) and it takes place in Earth-One's future, where Bruce's direct descendent, Bron Wayn E7705, becomes the newest in a long line of Batmen in order to avenge his parents after they're murdered by the Joker (who is a direct descendent of the original Joker).

Once again I should stress that the Batman in this story is not Bruce Wayne, but his descendent living in the 30th century. Even so, this comic is the earliest story to present a version of Batman who specifically adopts the cape and cowl in order to take revenge against a Joker who murdered his mother and father. And it predates the first Tim Burton movie by over two decades. So next time someone complains about this aspect of the Burton lore, just point out that Jim Shooter did it first in the Silver Age comics.

While I'm bumping this thread, I might as well add a few minor things. All of these comics date from the Golden Age.

'The Case of the Three Devils' (Detective Comics Vol 1 #50, April 1941) climaxes with a fight in a bell tower that visually resembles the movie's finale.

'Crime's Cameraman!' (World's Finest Vol 1 #21, March 1946) features a scene where Batman steals the film from the camera of a photographer who takes his picture, though not for the same reason he steals Vicki's film in the movie.

And finally, here's a straightforward visual comparison with the Joker wearing sunglasses in 'The Joker's Crime Costumes!' (Batman Vol 1 #63, February 1951).

Before I end this post, I wanted to mention a page on Deviant Art where a user named FreakTerrorizes has compiled an extensive list of quotes relating to the comic book influences on Burton's Batman. This person has dug up far more quotes on the subject than I ever did and they deserve massive props for their research. You can view a full list of the quotes they've gathered here:

https://www.deviantart.com/freakterrorizes/art/Tim-Burton-s-Comic-Book-Research-Favorite-Comic-751360456

For now I'd like to highlight just a few of these. Firstly, here's another quote confirming that the opening scene of the 1989 movie was inspired by 'Night of the Stalker!' (Detective Comics Vol 1 #439, March 1974).

Over three lunch meetings, Uslan loaned Burton a stack of comic books, including a photocopy of Batman #1, which introduced The Joker and Catwoman; Detective Comics #217, during which Robin goes to college, and Batman moves into a Gotham City penthouse to become a lone crusader; and #251, The Joker's reappearance as a much darker super-villain. "Just as important as what I gave him was what I kept away from him," Uslan says. "I didn't want him to see the campy and ridiculous stuff." Out of his personal collection, Uslan also shared with Burton his all-time favorite Batman story, from Detective Comics #439: "Night of the Stalker." It would become the basis for the opening scene of Burton's movie.

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2012/07/how-the-dark-knight-became-dark-again/259923/

And here are some quotes where Michael Keaton directly cites Frank Miller as an influence on the characterisation of his Batman.

"Conversations with Tim [Burton]. We saw it exactly the same way. Some of it was baked in already because he was doing the Frank Miller Batman. We both understood it was the Frank Miller version of Batman, I told him how I saw it. He kept nodding and said, 'that's it....'"

https://deadline.com/2016/12/michael-keaton-ray-kroc-mcdonalds-the-founder-interview-1201866996/

"This was gutsy on his part, Tim said 'I'm doing Batman. Would you read the script?' I wasn't familiar with the comic, but here's what he did, he said, 'read this one', which was the Frank Miller thing, which was Dark Knight Returns. And I went, 'Whoa, this is interesting.' The look of it and the colors. So I went and read it and I though, 'This ain't gonna work.' But everything I said Tim kept nodding. 'He's ridiculously depressed. He's a vigilante. He's got this issue.' It was just so obvious what it is. I thought this is interesting as an actor but nobody is gonna make that. And then he goes, 'Yup, that's what I wanna do. That's exactly what I wanna do.' And I thought, 'Oh, really? Oh, dude.' And I said 'Okay.' He had such a clear take on it."

https://beta.prx.org/stories/97517

The link doesn't work for this next one, but here's the quote:

In Inside Hollywood magazine [August 1992] Michael Keaton was asked, "Were you a fan of the Batman comic books?" Michael Keaton explained, "I like the new version, the Dark Knight series [by Frank Miller], which portrays Batman as a depressed and repressed person. I played him that way..."

Once again, credit for researching these quotes must go to the Deviant Art user FreakTerrorizes.

[BatmanFurst]

Silver seriously thank you for all the work you've done on this thread.

Thanks for the DeviantArt link. It always upsets me whenever people try to dismiss Burton's work on this film by saying he never read a comic book. First off it's ridiculous to think that WB would let a filmmaker make the most expensive movie ever made at that time without doing proper research. Second, there are so many sequences in the 89 film that feel like they're ripped straight from the comics that I don't know how anyone can say that he didn't read any of the comics before filming. Unfortunately it all stems from that stupid quote Burton said in response to Kevin Smith over Planet of the Apes. People have taken that quote and ran with it in a way that's so unfair to everything Burton did with the original Batman film.

[The Joker]

Silver really is the GOAT when it comes to research.

No argument heard here. That's for damn sure.

Returning to the subject of comic influences, I always assumed the mirror scene in the 1989 movie was based on the moment from The Killing Joke where the Joker sees his reflection for the first time and starts laughing maniacally. There's also a similar scene in 'The Man Behind the Red Hood!'

But in light of Hamm's quote about his Joker being influenced by the comic book Two-Face, it seems more likely that this scene was inspired by the following panels from 'The Crimes of Two-Face' (Detective Comics Vol 1 #66, August 1942).

There's a scene later in the story where Two-Face is looking in another mirror, which he then smashes.

The mirror scene in the finished film is pretty much identical to the scene as Hamm wrote it in his 1986 script, except that in the screenplay the doctor suggests the possibility of reconstructive surgery. Note that the doctor also mentions reconstructive surgery in one of the above comic panels from Detective Comics Vol 1 #66.

Yeah, I was trying to think exactly what inspiration/influence Hamm took from Two-Face when I read that quote, and was perplexed, but the above panels certainly shed some light on it. Actually, it never would have occurred to me that Hamm cleverly merged Joker and Two-Face's depicted revelations to their "new" selves, but it works. Rather than going for a more faithful adaptation with Jack (perhaps) staggering to his apartment, getting a look in the mirror, and laughing manically; we essentially get that, but with some Detec #66 influences to beef it up a bit (bandages, mirror, ect). Which I am personally thankful for, and prefer overall. As it remains, for my money, a favorite scene out of any cinematic Joker depictions to this day.

[Silver Nemesis]

Silver seriously thank you for all the work you've done on this thread.

You're very welcome, friend. I'm glad others besides myself are still interested in this subject.

Thanks for the DeviantArt link. It always upsets me whenever people try to dismiss Burton's work on this film by saying he never read a comic book. First off it's ridiculous to think that WB would let a filmmaker make the most expensive movie ever made at that time without doing proper research. Second, there are so many sequences in the 89 film that feel like they're ripped straight from the comics that I don't know how anyone can say that he didn't read any of the comics before filming. Unfortunately it all stems from that stupid quote Burton said in response to Kevin Smith over Planet of the Apes. People have taken that quote and ran with it in a way that's so unfair to everything Burton did with the original Batman film.

It is a pity that Kevin Smith quote keeps resurfacing. I've no doubt that Burton is not the kind of guy who typically collects and reads comic books, but that doesn't mean he didn't familiarise himself with the source material when prepping his film adaptation. David Goyer has stated that Chris Nolan wasn't a comic reader either when he began work on Batman Begins. But like Burton, Nolan was equipped with the source material and did his research. According to Goyer:

"Chris had never read comic books. He didn't know the world. So he trusted me on that franchise and with Superman to know what was canon: what could be changed and what couldn't be changed.

"Early in Batman Begins he said, 'Does he have to have a utility belt?', and I said, 'Yes'. And he said, 'Why?' And then he showed me a design and it was all black. And I said, 'It has to be yellow', and he said, 'Oh...'

"I identified the ten things that remained sticky about Batman and Superman. Wrote them up and said to Chris, 'These are the ten things that should be in the movie. Like the Ten Commandments. As long as we honour that, we'll be good'."

https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a518055/christopher-nolan-didnt-know-batman-world-says-david-s-goyer/

Yeah, I was trying to think exactly what inspiration/influence Hamm took from Two-Face when I read that quote, and was perplexed, but the above panels certainly shed some light on it. Actually, it never would have occurred to me that Hamm cleverly merged Joker and Two-Face's depicted revelations to their "new" selves, but it works. Rather than going for a more faithful adaptation with Jack (perhaps) staggering to his apartment, getting a look in the mirror, and laughing manically; we essentially get that, but with some Detec #66 influences to beef it up a bit (bandages, mirror, ect). Which I am personally thankful for, and prefer overall. As it remains, for my money, a favorite scene out of any cinematic Joker depictions to this day.

The mirror scene is certainly one of the Joker's most iconic cinematic moments.

Another possible tie between Hamm's Joker and the comic book Two-Face is the character of Alicia. Years ago I wrote something about how Alicia was likely based on the comic book character Circe, who was the girlfriend of Roman Sionis before he disfigured her. In case anyone needs a refresher, here's the thread: https://www.batman-online.com/forum/index.php?topic=2026.

One thing I didn't mention in that discussion is that Circe formed an alliance with Two-Face during her second storyline, which ran from Detective Comics Vol 1 #563-564 and Batman Vol 1 #397-398 (June-August 1986). It's later revealed that Circe is secretly working with Batman and only entered into the alliance with Two-Face as part of a larger scheme. But nevertheless, we get to see the two characters bond over their respective disfigurements.

One of the issues in this storyline, Detective Comics #563, features the following flashback:

Detective Comics #564 contains a scene where Two-Face confronts Batman in a brewery that visually foreshadows the cinematic confrontation in Axis Chemicals. Only this sequence ends with Batman falling into a large vat rather than his enemy.

The last time Two-Face and Circe are seen together in the final issue of this arc – Batman #398 – is after they break into a museum together. This somewhat foreshadows the Joker's raid on the Flugelheim in the 1989 film, for which Alicia was also present. It's after this sequence that Two-Face turns on Circe and tries to kill her.

Luckily Batman, Robin and Catwoman show up to save her. The story ends with Circe mysteriously vanishing and leaving behind her broken mask.

Circe would later show up in one final storyline involving Black Mask, but that was published after the 1989 film and Two-Face wasn't involved.

Just to reiterate, Hamm's Batman script is dated October 1986, while the storyline featuring the alliance between Circe and Two-Face was published between June and August of 1986. In other words, this particular arc was the main storyline in both Batman and Detective Comics at the exact time Sam Hamm would have been writing his draft of the film script. Coincidence?