the end is the beginning is the end is the beginning is the end is the beginning

[riddler]

It plays over the end credits. As mentioned Joel Schumacher directed both that one and that U2 song from batman forever.

[The Joker]

I remember watching The Dark Knight for the first time in the theater, and the Watchmen trailer with the slower End/Beginning Pumpkins song played over it. Thought it was interesting due to the song's association with Batman & Robin, but since then, I associate it much more with Watchmen than I do B&R thanks to that (awesome) trailer. 

[riddler]

[Catwoman]

that is so freaking awesome! thanks for posting!

[Seantastic]

ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS loved this song!
I remember that this was the first song I ever downloaded using Limewire back in the day hahaha!

Music was such an important part of the original Bat series - it goes back to Prince and his involvement with the first.  He was asked to write one song, and he wrote a whole album and really reflected every side of the 3 main characters on it.  You go to Returns and originally the same thing was supposed to happen with R.E.M until Warner's pulled out and they went with Siouxsie instead at the last minute, and that track alone encapsulated the entire film, both musically but visually in the music video too.
Forever you had the incredible track by U2 (always will be one of my favourite songs ever), which again summed up Forever, hell U2 at the time summed up Forever, and then this one which sure maybe the tones aren't AS similar as the rest, but the way the film was being hyped and advertised (which was a lot darker than the film actually was), this song made sense on that front atleast.

Sorry for the bump; a HUGE music lover, and the music of the 90s Batman films really did shape my musical tastes (I have a Forever/U2 poster up on my wall )

[Catwoman]

(I have a Forever/U2 poster up on my wall )

Is it like in the style of the music video or what?

And lol I love my title for this thread.

[Seantastic]

(I have a Forever/U2 poster up on my wall )

Is it like in the style of the music video or what?

And lol I love my title for this thread.

Nah, its just the poster with the release info on it; still majorly cool though

[thecolorsblend]

Music was such an important part of the original Bat series - it goes back to Prince and his involvement with the first.  He was asked to write one song, and he wrote a whole album and really reflected every side of the 3 main characters on it.  You go to Returns and originally the same thing was supposed to happen with R.E.M until Warner's pulled out

Never heard this before. What's the story there?

and they went with Siouxsie instead at the last minute, and that track alone encapsulated the entire film, both musically but visually in the music video too.

You've got bangin' hot Siouxsie in that shiny leather outfit in the video. So no complaints here.

Forever you had the incredible track by U2 (always will be one of my favourite songs ever), which again summed up Forever, hell U2 at the time summed up Forever,

I'm not trying to challenge you on this... but I don't see it. I can see where you can tie some of the lyrics to Batman in BF such as...

You don't know how you got here
You just know you want out
Believing in yourself
Almost as much as you doubt

Of course you're not shy
You don't have to deny love

The rest of the lyrics though (really, the majority of them)... I just don't see it.

I always thought of the U2 song as the rock song to get attention for the movie. But for my money the Seal song did for Bruce in BF what Face to Face did for Selina in BR in perfectly capturing the character's struggles and epiphanies in the films. Kiss from a Rose was the more insightful character piece for me.

and then this one which sure maybe the tones aren't AS similar as the rest, but the way the film was being hyped and advertised (which was a lot darker than the film actually was), this song made sense on that front atleast.

I always thought TEITBITE (the fast one) was written from Ivy's point of view. I guess I could see a darker, grittier Batman thinking those thoughts... but it seems like a better fit for Poison Ivy somehow.

The sewers belch me up
The heavens spit me out
From ethers tragic I am born again

That symbolically and somewhat literally happens to Ivy.

And now I'm with you now
Inside your world of wow
To move in desires made of deadly pretends

Ivy's invaded Gotham City and is sowing dissent between Batman and Robin with her pheromone compound. It exacerbates existing tension between the two of them. But this is just a sideshow. The real threat is still to come. Speaking of which...

Till the end times begin

Yeah, she does everything in her power to bring this about. This is very literal. You don't need much interpretation here.

Separately I'd argue TBITEITB (the slow one) has lyrics more befitting of Mr. Freeze.

Send a heartbeat to
The void that cries through you

Nora bobbing around in her water tan and Victor's hope for saving her.

Relive the pictures that have come to pass

Mr. Freeze watching old home movies of himself and Nora when they were whole and healthy. They were happy.

For now we stand alone
The world is lost and blown
And we are flesh and blood disintegrate
With no more to hate

Hopefully no commentary for Freeze is necessary there.

Delivered from the blast
The last of a line of lasts
The pale princess of a palace cracked
And now the kingdom comes
Crashing down undone
And I am a master of a nothing place
Of recoil and grace

Apart from saving his wife, Freeze is a guy with basically nothing to live for. Hell, that's his arc for the latter half of the film when he believes she's dead.

So on and so on.

What the two songs have in common is the narrator's alternating contempt for and fascination with Batman as per the chorus for each song...

Is it bright where you are?
Have the people changed?

Gotham City didn't trust Batman in B89. At points the city feared him in BR. They'd warmed up considerably in BF. In B&R though, he's a welcome part of the mainstream.

Yes, that's a hell of a change.

Does it make you happy you're so strange?

The above notwithstanding, Batman's still a pretty friggin weird guy. This isn't rhetorical either; I'm sure Freeze and especially Ivy truly want an answer to this question.

And in your darkest hour,

B&R is most certainly that as far as stakes are concerned. Bruce is losing his surrogate father, his partnership with Dick has never been in greater peril, Freeze is on the rampage, Ivy's destroying everything she touches and, holy crap, they just froze the entire city!

The Joker's parade would've killed, what, a few hundred people? A thousand tops? The Penguin's scheme would've killed dozens of babies. Babies, yes, but still a lower body count than the Joker was promising. The Riddler and Two Face only really jeopardized two people (Chase and Robin). The stakes got smaller and smaller as the films went on.

But here in B&R? Yes, everything Batman's fought for is on the table. And once Gotham falls, who can say that they won't turn their attention on the rest of the world?

I hold secrets flame.
You can watch the world devoured in it's pain.

This is their threat. Batman can watch all this happen but, from their standpoint, there's nothing he can do to stop it.

Taken together, this chorus is the glue of their alliance. It's the unifying philosophy that allows Ivy and Freeze to have any sort of partnership. Yes, Ivy's deception helps but the manifestation of it is Freeze's (misplaced) hostility toward Batman.

Yes, I might've wanted a song from Dick's point of view. Just imagine how that chorus might've played into his character arc in the film... or not. Maybe Corgan considered a song like that but couldn't find a throughline for Dick as a character. It happens. And I'm happy to have these two point/counterpoint songs. But a third one for Dick would've been welcome.

Frankly I think all of the above is very literally true of the characters and it matches the tone of some scenes if not the film as a whole.

Again, not trying to derail your point (or this thread), I'm just saying I don't completely relate to it.

Sorry to type War & Peace here. Guess I had more to say than I originally thought.

[The Dark Knight]

Forever you had the incredible track by U2 (always will be one of my favourite songs ever), which again summed up Forever, hell U2 at the time summed up Forever,

I'm not trying to challenge you on this... but I don't see it. I can see where you can tie some of the lyrics to Batman in BF such as...

You don't know how you got here
You just know you want out
Believing in yourself
Almost as much as you doubt

Of course you're not shy
You don't have to deny love

The rest of the lyrics though (really, the majority of them)... I just don't see it.

I always thought of the U2 song as the rock song to get attention for the movie. But for my money the Seal song did for Bruce in BF what Face to Face did for Selina in BR in perfectly capturing the character's struggles and epiphanies in the films. Kiss from a Rose was the more insightful character piece for me.

I agree. The song isn't about Batman, it's about fame. But I still think The Edge really created a killer 'Batman' vibe for my money. There's also a similar atmosphere going on with their song 'Gone', which features on their underrated album Pop.

[Catwoman]

For the record Seal originally wrote and recorded Kiss from a Rose like four years before Forever came out. It got rereleased the year before it came out and got kind of popular, then ended up on the soundtrack and got super popular.

I read a interview with Billy Corgan about the song and it was definitely written about Batman. The ethers tragic are his parents murder. I doubt they had any idea about Poison Ivy and her story lol.

From Wikipedia (but the source is in the link under it so it's like verified):

At one point I found myself going, "I can't write a song about Batman, I'm in an alternative band." And I thought this is stupid, if I can write a song about Batman and it serves the purpose, which is to make it happen and connect with the movie, and connect with something that is unique and original, then, why not? For me, it was a great kind of artistic thing to do because it was very freeing. I wasn't talking about myself or trying to represent the Smashing Pumpkins. I was trying to represent Batman.[1]

http://web.archive.org/web/19970614024604/http://www.mtv.com/news/gallery/s/wirsmashing970502.html

Also from Wikipedia, I tried to get the source for that part but it's like from a magazine instead of an online article so I couldn't so take it with like a whole box of salt lol:

He further commented that the song's lyrics were meant to represent the Batman of the 1940s, when he was a "darker character".[2]