Learning more about Bruce Wayne

[JokerMeThis]

I'm a big fan of this movie but one problem with it is that it doesn't have enough focus on Bruce Wayne. I wouldn't want anything cut from the movie though so to give more of a focus on Bruce Wayne I'd like the movie to be longer. How do people think the movie could've examined Bruce's character, his background and his motives more? Consider how this could've been done in Batman '89 too.

One thing for this movie I can think of is showing us more about why Bruce's relationship with Vicki Vale failed. And why he seems to like being alone so much.

As for Batman '89, I am fascinated by his line about bats. "They're great survivors." I'd like to know more about why Bruce said this and how it relates to him. Perhaps Bruce feels guilty for surviving while his parents did not.

[The Laughing Fish]

I liked the way Bruce Wayne's character was handled in B89. It felt like a good way to explain to viewers who knew nothing about Batman before, without going into an incredibly plodding, and long-winding chore to get through. Bruce Wayne here is mysterious many ways, yet he is still simple to understand; a man who can't recover from the trauma of losing his parents in cold blood that he feels the only way he can fill that empty void in his life is to become this crime-fighting maniac, even though it will cost him the chance of having a relationship. It's why he was annoyed when Alfred revealed the truth about his secret identity to Vicki.

I got to admit though, the relationship with Bruce and Vicki in the end does feel like an afterthought that doesn't get resolved until it was mentioned in Returns. I suppose the producers didn't want to end the first film on a downbeat by Vicki realising she can't get romantically involved with Bruce because of what he does, but still...

[JokerMeThis]

I like what we are shown in the movies but I think it would've been nice to see more of Bruce's childhood and his interaction with his parents like in Batman Begins. Seeing some of his training would've been interesting although I don't think it should've taken as much movie time as it did in Batman Begins.

I also would've liked to have seen Bruce Wayne's encounter with a bat that inspired him to use that symbol for his crime fighting. Something like what we see in Batman Forever which is much better and darker than the scene in Batman Begins in my opinion.

On the other hand though you do make a good point and help me to better appreciate the way it was done in Batman '89.

Do you have any thoughts on how Bruce's character could've been explored more in Batman Returns? I think there should've been some reference to his parents and why he is Batman.

[The Laughing Fish]

The funny thing is Batman Returns always felt episodic to me, in the sense that it takes place at a time where we are expected to know everything about him as he faces multiple villains: Catwoman, Penguin and Max Schreck. As odd as it sounds, it doesn't feel like a direct sequel to the first film, and Burton himself admitted he wanted to stay away from any connection to the first film as possible.

I guess if there could be one reference why he became Batman, perhaps the movie could've shown Batman reminiscing himself making a promise to honour his parents by fighting crime, but come to the present day he then feels conflicted that he sees himself to be just as deadly as Catwoman. This would've given Batman some doubt about what he was doing - similar to what they were trying to achieve in Batman Forever. It would've made the scene with him trying to talk her out of killing Schreck a bit more sense.

[JokerMeThis]

I've thought similar things. Bruce should've considered stopping being Batman because of all the deaths of criminals he has caused. He could think of this when he realizes that what Catwoman is doing isn't that different from what he did in the previous movie. Being consumed with anger and a desire for revenge which leads to the murder of criminals. Batman tries to stop Catwoman from going down the same path but fails. He could've saved her but perhaps he can change his ways and save himself in the future. This would lead into Batman Forever quite nicely when Bruce has stopped killing criminals and tries to save someone else going down the road of revenge and murder. Robin. This time he succeeds in saving that person.

[The Dark Knight]

^If Burton did a third, I think Batman would've still killed. It's just how he saw the character.

[Edd Grayson]

I agree it would've been better if we learned more about Bruce Wayne in Batman Returns. I like Penguin and Catwoman but they often steal the spotlight from our hero.

I wonder why Burton wanted to stay away from Batman '89 so much, I liked the way Batman was handled there too and it would've been nice to develop Batman's story in BR.

[The Dark Knight]

We do find out about Bruce Wayne in BR, but more subtly.

"I hope he finds them" - this is a guy who knows about losing parents. He's still holding onto this pain. He's very alone and obsessive, brooding in darkness waiting for the signal to light up. Batman is his whole life. As Batman, he's a mean customer who will put you down and move on, not thinking anything of it. Eg, the fire breather, taser clown and strong man. He just offers "we'll see" to Gordon.

Alfred's "are you in pain?" comment is a good one. "No, not really." He's referring to the claw he just pulled out of his body. But there's something else lingering under the surface for sure. He's intrigued and feeling alive. He's not mechanical, going through the motions.

As a businessman he's a cynic, "what's your angle", and his two personas converge. Ala getting shot through his jacket in B89 when Joker's goons open fire. Later, he's intoxicated by Selina and wants her in his life. He's still not interested in social outings, but changes his mind with he guesses Selina will attend.

That's the important part here, I think. He's an iron maiden – a tortured soul, which just happens to be his secret entrance into the cave, and sees a ray of happiness in Selina. Someone similar. He has his big heart to heart at the end, but as we know his advance is doomed. At the end, he's mournful but strangely at peace.

[JokerMeThis]

I've always liked the line where Bruce says "His parents...I hope he finds them." He says a lot there using few words. Just like this Batman always does. We know he's thinking of his own parents here. Bruce would probably give anything to be able to see his parents again. It's a quick line that says a lot. Good writing.

I like that "We'll see" is the only thing Batman says to Gordon in the Burton Batman movies. This Batman says little but says a lot when saying it.

Bruce does indeed seem at peace at the end of the movie even though he's alone. He seems to believe that Catwoman is still alive. He did see her shadow briefly as she left the cat for him. Also, at least he has Alfred as company. And now he has Selina's cat to keep him company too.

Beautiful movie.

[JokerMeThis]

I would have liked to see more story for Batman in the Burton Batman movies too.

How would you have developed Batman's story Edd Grayson?