Heath Ledgers Joker

[The Dark Knight]

Well, after seeing the film I wondered the same thing. I have this concept:

The Premise

Centre Batman 3 around a killer mystery, ala Long Halloween and Dark Victory. A killer is taking out different bad cops, leaving pinned riddles and clues on them. The thing is, the clues and riddles are written on Harvey Dent's old case files about the mob. It is mighty bizarre for somebody appearing to be Two Face doing these crimes. In reality, the whole things just a mind game set up by the Riddler, but it takes the film a long time to get to that revelation. It is keeping alive the character of Dent in a way, so this plot line has the lasting effect it should.

Costumed Freaks vs. The Mob Conflict

With that going on, then loosely take Dark Victory, which is a murder mystery set in the context of Gotham's gang wars, but don't make it as clean cut as that. Make it messy - lots of little gangs fighting each other.

The villains need to get crazier than they've been in this post-Joker Gotham, both in actions and appearance. Get more costumed foes here, and have a basic freaks vs. mob conflict going on ala Dark Victory, where the standard criminal element attempts to recover their grounds from the costumed crazies and ultimately fails to do so.

Regardless of what may have had been in store with the Joker for Batman 3, I think the way The Dark Knight ended was perfect. The Joker is caught (for now) but he is destined to battle Batman forever. Joker has inspired people similar to him to come out of the woodwork and go to war. Note: they?ll need an army to be essentially how chaotic Joker is just by himself, who is locked away in Arkham Asylum.

Batman Returns

In the finale of The Dark Knight, Batman is on the run from the police for taking the blame for Dent?s crimes to uphold his memory as Gotham?s redeemer. Remember Maroni said to Batman that the criminals now know that he has no rules, and The Joker has none? Well, with Batman taking the responsibility for these murders, people will think that he now has no rules. Consequently, they will dread him even more. It is a kind of un-intended result that can work in Batman?s favour, giving him street credibility, so to speak.

The freaks/mob conflict has to be so out of control that the police are then forced to come back to Batman to help sort out this chaotic mess. This doesn?t mean Batman is on good terms with the police, either.

The Riddler

Riddler is a very hard character to write for, and this plot fits well indeed. Riddler doesn?t kill, or doesn?t like to, so you could have him as a mastermind of the whole operation. He still condones the killings, though. He?s adding the riddles to the bodies for his little game. I?d throw in some bizarre death traps in the Jigsaw vein, and flesh out the excessive compulsive side to the character as well. This is The Riddler true to form, but a little harder edged.

The Riddler?s intelligence, sleuthing and possible connections make him find out something that very few know, Bruce Wayne is Batman - ala the plot point from The Dark Knight. When it all hits the fan, the last bargaining chip could be Wayne?s identity. Riddler?s gizmos hijack Gotham Cable News and project an image of Batman on a screen, slowly being revealed pixel by pixel.

[DocLathropBrown]

I want the Scarecrow to finally be done justice in the next film.

Firefly, Killer Croc, Clayface, the Riddler, Catwoman.... they could do anything.

[Sandman]

The Riddler thing sounds pretty good hopefully he will be played by Guy Pearce one of my fav actors and he did star in what has been called Nolan's greatest movie.

I was kinda hoping for Two-Face to be in the third one but that's out of the question now, shame cause Aaron Eckhart did such a great job aswell. As for Scarecrow all i can say is Nolan had his chance and he blew it...twice.

[The Dark Knight]

The Riddler thing sounds pretty good

Cheers. A fair bit of effort went into that premise.

I was kinda hoping for Two-Face to be in the third one but that's out of the question now, shame cause Aaron Eckhart did such a great job aswell.

I agree, he did a fantastic job. It is bittersweet, I'd like him to return, but the way it is handled in The Dark Knight is too good to tamper with in my view.

[Sandman]

I agree it is better to have a exellent Two-Face in 1 movie and not have it tampered with.

[Azrael]

One of the things the film was about was the tragedy of a honorable man trying to make a difference in a corrupt world with success, and his subsequent fall and death. Having him return as a criminal/vigilante would take away from all this, it would diminish the dramatic effect of TDK, as well as rendering useless the final plot point of the film: Batman's "sacrifice" and proclamation as a Dark Knight.

But with the Nolans, you never know. They could even pull off his return, but I doubt it.

The Riddler "murder mystery" combined with the Mob Vs. Freaks concept sounds really good.

[BurtonBatman]

But isn't this exactly what Tim Burton did in BR?

The Penguin had NO character prior to Burton showing up.  So he took a few details from the comics (intellect, running for mayor/penchant for high society, etc) and otherwise reimagined the character because none existed previously... and that only because the studio demanded Penguin be included in the movie.  The arms dealer or night club owner versions of the character were still years away.

The Joker, by contrast, is probably the most well developed character in all of Batman's rogue's gallery.  There was never any need to change the fundamental nature of who he is.

I just reread BatmAngelus' BR influences thread and understand where you are coming from, but I still find Heath's Joker to be very much in the spirit of Batman #1 and TKJ, as it appears (thanks to you thecolorsblend as well as BatmAngelus) Burton's Penguin was to his core elements.  If it comes down to appearances then, I don't find Heath's appearance to be any more of a stretch (in fact I think its less of one) than what Burton tweaked for the Penguin in BR.  The Penguin's look was established many years prior to BR, and based on the frame in BatmAngelus'  thread, looks nothing like what we saw in the film.  Burton stretched a little further with the Penguin's appearance in BR than Nolan did with the Joker's in TDK, while keeping the core elements of the character intact.     

[The Dark Knight]

The Dark Knight IMDb forum has some quotes up. Interestingly, are two of the different origins Joker gives for his scars.

"You look nervous. Is it the scars? You want to know how I got them? Come here. Hey, look at me. So I had a wife, beautiful; like you. Who tells me, I worry too much. Who tells me, I ought to smile more. Who gambles, and gets in deep with sharks. One day they carve her face. We have no money for surgeries. She can't take it! I just want to see her smile again. I just want her to know that I don't care about the scars. So I stick a razor in my mouth and do this... to myself. And you know what? She can't stand the sight of me! She leaves. Now I see the funny side. Now I'm always smiling!?"

[Holding a knife inside Gamble's mouth] "Do you want to know how I got these scars? My father was...a drinker...and a fiend. One night he goes off crazier than usual, and Mommy picks up a kitchen knife to defend herself. Well, Daddy doesn't like that. Not. One. Bit. So, me watching, he takes the knife and slices her up, laughing as he does it. And then he looks at me standing there, and says, "Why...so...serious?" And as he's walking over to me: "Why...so...serious?" And then he puts the knife in my mouth, like this, and says, "Let's put a *smile* on that face!"

Love both of these.

[thecolorsblend]

If you just read them, I don't think they play as well.  It's with Ledger and the music that they really go somewhere.  I got pretty sick of that "why so serious" bit before the movie opened but seeing it in context made for probably the best scene of the whole movie.

[The Dark Knight]

Precisely. It is naturally a lot better in the film. I just posted them there because I liked it so much seeing it.