Heath Ledgers Joker

[The Dark Knight]

It doesn't matter what subject you are talking about. You have yet to see the film, that encompasses everything to do with TDK.

[Paul (ral)]

I was responding to a negative comment towards another member - that has to do with respect (not TDK).

[DocLathropBrown]

I like my Joker clean, dignified and "sophisticated". Cleaned up, prissy. More theatrical. Jack is that. Ledger is not. That's why I rate Jack higher, he embodies one of the biggest traits of the more classic style Joker. I'm much less a fan of the more current incarnation of the Joker that Ledger embodies.

This isn't a comparison of performances (you're the only one doing that), but a comparison of incarnation. I think both performances are equal, even if you don't. You don't have to be a nostolgia-obsessed idiot to still prefer something older, which isn't what you'd like to believe, I'm sure.

I'll put it this way. If Heath had just been a prissier, slightly more theatrical Joker in the vein of Jack, but with the added youth and physique, with his bigger, nastier ideals, than he'd be my perfect Joker. But Jack still has traits that I liked better.

It's rediculous that I should have to defend my opinion so I'm not accused of being a nostolgia-infused idiot. This isn't SuperHeroHype, we don't appreciate such accusations of inferiority here.

Keep in mind... if someone doesn't agree with you about something, it doesn't make them biased, nostolgic or incorrect. Believe it or not, maybe they've decided and compared as opposed to blindly choosing to go with nostolgia.

Don't get me wrong, I loved the holy sh*t out of Ledger's performance. One of the highest, best things out of a movie I rate a 5/5, and tied with B89 as my #1 favorite Batfilm. But if I'm going to compare the two (which I'm not interested in doing as it puts one of them at a disadvantage), frankly, Jack was more the classic style Joker, and the last Batman comics I loved with any major enthusiasm were the mid-ninties and back. So there you go. Doesn't mean I can't accept Ledger or don't appreciate the brilliance of his performance. In my opinion, you don't have to do the things Ledger did to bring in a great performance as the Joker. Having been analyzing Jack's performance all my life practically, I can say he wasn't trying any less than Ledger.

[Joker81]

Well said Doc.
I agree with you.

and poster, the dark knight, nobody could have played the Joker like Jack did back in 1989, as a matter of fact I doubt Ledger could play that type of Joker. But I bet Jack could play Ledgers, we have seen Jack in more psychotic roles like the Shinning!

And how is Ledgers the 'definative' Joker?
What is 'definitive'? The character is 70 years old and had many incarnations.
Ledgers is a more recent portrayal.
Like Doc says Nicholsons is classic.

[Sandman]

Very well said Doc.

[thecolorsblend]

It doesn't matter what subject you are talking about. You have yet to see the film, that encompasses everything to do with TDK.

I've seen TDK twice.  I'll praise Ledger's performance on many grounds but I won't say the Joker is the character he's playing in that film.

In that sense, Nicholson wins by default.

[DocLathropBrown]

Let's not sell Ledger short. He could easily have played Jack's version of the Joker. It's not that much different than the version he played.

They're both such great actors, nothing would be impossible for either of them.

I disagree, colorsblend. He was very much the Joker. The Joker of today and there were elements of past Jokers as well. I'm just as tough on the Nolan franchise as anyone can be, so I can honestly say I'm happy to be wrong. I would have expected Ledger's Joker to suck or to feel about it the way you do, but I didn't. I was very pleasently surprised.

I just don't think the performance was Oscar-worthy. But then, neither was Jack's.

[The Dark Knight]

It doesn't matter what subject you are talking about. You have yet to see the film, that encompasses everything to do with TDK.

I've seen TDK twice.  I'll praise Ledger's performance on many grounds but I won't say the Joker is the character he's playing in that film.

In that sense, Nicholson wins by default.

You can't be serious.

In one scene, Joker made three men kill each other with a broken pool stick; the one who lived got to join his "gang." This is just Joker wanting to see these people kill each other, for his own enjoyment. Who's to say the survivor even got to join, or live for that matter? 

That is pure Joker. Indeed, DocLathropBrown, "He was very much the Joker. The Joker of today and there were elements of past Jokers as well."

The essential trademarks of The Joker is that he has a white face, red lips, green hair, and purple clothing. It doesn't matter how he receives these things, what matters is that they are there. This new version is fresh and adds a new spin, while being absolutely faithful to the character.

[thecolorsblend]

You can't be serious.

I can and I am.

In one scene, Joker made three men kill each other with a broken pool stick; the one who lived got to join his "gang." This is just Joker wanting to see these people kill each other, for his own enjoyment. Who's to say the survivor even got to join, or live for that matter?

The Joker in the comics wouldn't do that, unless he was planning to watch and laugh at them.

Indeed, DocLathropBrown, "He was very much the Joker. The Joker of today and there were elements of past Jokers as well."

The Joker of today?!  At BEST you could say he was an adaptation of the early Kane/Finger Joker (but even that's arguable).  I can't recall a recent comic of any great note where the Joker acted the way he did in TDK.

The essential trademarks of The Joker is that he has a white face, red lips, green hair, and purple clothing. It doesn't matter how he receives these things, what matters is that they are there.

The make up angle is COMPLETELY foreign to his history.  100%.  The Joker *IS* the Joker.  That's how his skin looks.  He can't change it, he can't "take it off", he can't stop, he can't be anything other than what he is.  THAT is the character from the comics.

This new version is fresh and adds a new spin, while being absolutely faithful to the character.

Hardly.

[Sandman]

The essential trademarks of The Joker is that he has a white face, red lips, green hair.

I thought he got all that from falling in the chemicals. Wasn't the whole make-up thing somthing Nolan came up with cause he didn't want his Joker to be made the same way as the others?.