The Amazing Spider-Man 2 (2014)

[riddler]

This is a petty complaint because it relates to what 'TASM' didn't do rather than what it did do, but ideally I'd have liked to have seen Kraven the Hunter introduced in the first film as an ostensible hero that has been hired to hunt and kill the Lizard.  That way the film could have ended with a three-way battle between Spider-Man, Kraven and the Lizard, the latter of whom Spider-Man is both trying to stop and prevent from being killed (since Dr Curt Connors is a friend/mentor).  That way you could also end the film with Kraven as a full-blown villain intent on one day getting his revenge on Spider-Man...then have him return as one of Harry's Sinister Six underlings for 'TASM3' or whatever as someone with an existing grudge against Spider-Man rather than a goon for hire.

It's a minor complaint like I say, but I do think the filmmakers missed a trick in view of the way the franchise seems to be stacking up.

The problem with your idea is that it would add ANOTHER character to develop and as it is the big debate is whether some story arcs were rushed. I don't really see Kraven fitting into that film given the science aspects of it. Your idea isn't bad, they could so something similar with doc ock and so far I haven't seen a 3 way battle pulled off in the comics.

If Oscorp eventually crumbles in the series, that could open the door for Kraven. He's a very gritty villain, it's difficult to envision him fitting in given all the science elements although with MJ replacing Gwen, they may tone down on the science aspect and increase the human element.

But some villains don't have to be extensively established; Rhino in 'TASM2' is a case in point.  As long as they organically fit into the films' narratives extensive backstories are unnecessary.  The problem with 'Spiderman 3' wasn't necessarily that there two to three villains, not including the Symbiote and its grip on Peter itself, it was that one of them (Venom) really required an entire film or even a number of films to develop his relatively complex arc (and the way the Symbiote just landed to Earth right next to Peter was stupid and random - at least in the comic-books the Symbiote is unintentionally brought to Earth by John Jameson AKA Man-Wolf, an acquaintance of Parker).

I do see your point about the science aspect of the ASM films so far though, particularly the first film, although I still could imagine a scenario in which The Lizard was trying to turn the city into 'lizard-people' whilst Kraven was trying to hunt him off, for the good of the city, by killing him; something Spider-Man would object to.  I just like the idea of Spidey seeming to align himself with the bad guys and the real villain being the character embraced by the public.  Kind of like the Penguin and Max Shreck in 'Batman Returns' especially after the former framed Batman and made him look like the 'bad guy'.

Maybe you'll get what you want in the next 2 films; Webb said J Jonah Jamieson will be a part of the next film. That opens up a lot of interesting possibilities; first off it will give us a setting other than Oscorp. Secondly that's where a character like Kraven could be used in the manner you alluded to; JJJ hiring Kraven to take out a villain so spider-man doesn't get the credit. Or even hiring kraven to take out spider-man himself although that may be excessive.

[GBglide]

at least in the comic-books the Symbiote is unintentionally brought to Earth by John Jameson AKA Man-Wolf, an acquaintance of Parker).

I though the symbiote was found offworld by Parker during the Secret Wars, or is that been changed?

[johnnygobbs]

at least in the comic-books the Symbiote is unintentionally brought to Earth by John Jameson AKA Man-Wolf, an acquaintance of Parker).

I though the symbiote was found offworld by Parker during the Secret Wars, or is that been changed?

No, you're completely right.  I thought I'd read something different in a Spider-Man encyclopaedia but clearly I got it wrong. 

I'm personally not too sure about the 'Secret Wars' backstory.  I guess I just thought that it would make more sense if an acquaintance of Parker who had been to space brought the Symbiote back to earth with them.  In any case, the 'Secret Wars' storyline is still better than what we got in 'Spiderman 3'.

[The Joker]

That 1990's Spider-Man the Animated Series scenario of how the venom symbiote got to earth, sure is popular with fans. As I remember being on message boards back even before Raimi's Spider-Man 2 came out, and seeing it suggested as a way to get the ball rolling. Though to it's credit, it is a very straightforward way of going about it without having to go into stuff like "Secret Wars", or say the Ultimate route with it being designed to cure cancer....

In any case, the 'Secret Wars' storyline is still better than what we got in 'Spiderman 3'.

Where the symbiote just arrives on earth like the Blob? Sure. Even with there already being enough of a story (and characters) without the inclusion of the symbiote/venom/eddie brock storyline, Raimi tried to make chicken salad out of chicken sh%t in that case, but hey, that's what a studio refusing to budge on their mandate gets us.

[johnnygobbs]

That's my entire point Joker; the 'Spider-Man 3' basis for the Symbiote arriving on Earth was atrocious.  In fact, there was no basis.

But I'm curious because I only have vague memories of the animated TV show, as good as it was; what was the scenario for the Symbiote arriving on Earth and how did Spider-Man come to be involved?

[johnnygobbs]

Maybe you'll get what you want in the next 2 films; Webb said J Jonah Jamieson will be a part of the next film. That opens up a lot of interesting possibilities; first off it will give us a setting other than Oscorp. Secondly that's where a character like Kraven could be used in the manner you alluded to; JJJ hiring Kraven to take out a villain so spider-man doesn't get the credit. Or even hiring kraven to take out spider-man himself although that may be excessive.

This is a good idea riddler, although it would have been better if JJJ hired the Scorpion like he does in the comic-books (although that seems unlikely if the Scorpion's suit has already been spotted at the Oscorp lab).

My perfect scenario for a 'second trilogy' would concern the 'Venom' story.  I'd however, start off with Man-Wolf, JJJ's son, in the role I earlier suggested for The Lizard with Kraven arriving to hunt Man-Wolf for the good of the people (with no one realising that Man-Wolf is really JJJ's son who is under control of the amulet he discovered on his travels to space).  Kraven, initially hired by JJJ, is so consumed by his mission to take down Man-Wolf he refuses to take a less bloodthirsty approach when it becomes apparent who Man-Wolf really is, and it's up to Spider-Man to both stop and save Man-Wolf.  I'd add Eddie Brock somewhere into the mix as a reporter working for JJJ who reports a false story about Man-Wolf's exploits that associates him with some crimes he has nothing to do with.  Spider-Man reveals Brock's lies and thus, an enraged JJJ angry that his son has been falsely linked with a crime spree thanks to Brock's less-than-rigorously-researched journalism goes ballistic on Brock and ensures that he'll never get another job in the media ever again.

[riddler]

the most rational way to introduce the symbiote is the Ultimate spider-man storyline; Richard Parker and Eddie Brock sr. developed it as a method for curing cancer. Seeing as how this series is actually using the elder Parker's character and icorporating so much science, that is likely the best route

The secret wars would be a nightmare to even attempt to replicate on film and the space rocket would take too much screentime.

[johnnygobbs]

the most rational way to introduce the symbiote is the Ultimate spider-man storyline; Richard Parker and Eddie Brock sr. developed it as a method for curing cancer. Seeing as how this series is actually using the elder Parker's character and icorporating so much science, that is likely the best route

The secret wars would be a nightmare to even attempt to replicate on film and the space rocket would take too much screentime.

Does everything have to relate back to Richard Parker though?  Also, there was some real pathos in the original story in which Eddie Brock was a fellow Daily Bugle reporter who got caught out by Peter Parker.  It was this element, the sense of envy and bitterness he felt towards Spider-Man that made his story so compelling.  I don't know if I'd be interested if he simply turned out to be another son of a scientist whose connection to Parker goes back to childhood.  Haven't we already been there with Harry?

[riddler]

the most rational way to introduce the symbiote is the Ultimate spider-man storyline; Richard Parker and Eddie Brock sr. developed it as a method for curing cancer. Seeing as how this series is actually using the elder Parker's character and icorporating so much science, that is likely the best route

The secret wars would be a nightmare to even attempt to replicate on film and the space rocket would take too much screentime.

Does everything have to relate back to Richard Parker though?  Also, there was some real pathos in the original story in which Eddie Brock was a fellow Daily Bugle reporter who got caught out by Peter Parker.  It was this element, the sense of envy and bitterness he felt towards Spider-Man that made his story so compelling.  I don't know if I'd be interested if he simply turned out to be another son of a scientist whose connection to Parker goes back to childhood.  Haven't we already been there with Harry?

I'm one of the few people who liked the Eddie brock treatment in spider-man 3. I liked how he was the anti-Parker and their rivalry. That being said I'm not sure if that plot line would fit this series and let's face it; they're trying to be different. Also since Venom is destined to be a protagonist, they wont go too far to make him evil without the symbiote.

I'm not sure what the overall point of having Peter's parents as a part of the current story are. It doesn't feel like it is truly adding that much. That being said it would be easy to pick up the Parker Sr/Brock Sr plotline. Though you're right it would be too similar to Harry; Brock getting cancer and needing the suit after spider-man had to to cure him.

[johnnygobbs]

I'm one of the few people who liked the Eddie brock treatment in spider-man 3. I liked how he was the anti-Parker and their rivalry. That being said I'm not sure if that plot line would fit this series and let's face it; they're trying to be different. Also since Venom is destined to be a protagonist, they wont go too far to make him evil without the symbiote.

I'm not sure what the overall point of having Peter's parents as a part of the current story are. It doesn't feel like it is truly adding that much. That being said it would be easy to pick up the Parker Sr/Brock Sr plotline. Though you're right it would be too similar to Harry; Brock getting cancer and needing the suit after spider-man had to to cure him.

I don't have a problem with the way Eddie Brock was conceived in 'Spider-Man 3' which was more or less taken directly from the original (i.e. non-Ultimate) comic-books; I just thought it was rushed and poorly handled, and of course the Symbiote and how it happened to be on Earth in the first place was just ridiculously random and poorly thought-out.

I do also like the idea of Brock being an anti-hero rather than a full-blown villain, or at least a redeemable villain, but I think that his comic-book origin suits that conception because it does endow him with a genuine degree of pathos.  You feel sorry for the guy when he's on his knees at church bemoaning the way Spider-Man has caused his life to fall apart.

Also, The Amazing Spider-Man's origins aren't too different from the Raimi series so I'd like the reboot to give Venom's classic origins another shot too.  Maybe they'll handle it well this time and cast someone who looks like the six foot red-headed brute Brock is in the comics.