Am i the ony who wished it was different???

[BatmanFanatic93]

& by different i mean act more like a sequel??Now don't get me wrong i love the burton films but i love batman 1989 the most & i always wished that batman returns acted more like a sequel rather then distance itself from the first film by completely revamping or reimaging gotham city however you want to put it,going darker when theres no need whatsoever & flat out becoming something new when the first film left so much to be brought back in the sequel....& i know some of you of you are gonna disagree with me on this but at least Batman Forever had the curiosity to mention past events that happen in the first films from jokers plans to poison gotham,penguins plans to kill the first born sons,the red triangle gang,& the two catwoman references said by chase on the rooftop with batman & a deleted scene where the riddler destroys the batcave more aka "It's gonna be be a hot time in a cold town tonight" i mean yeah BF had a mix tone thanks to wb & the villians were campy like in the 60's batman villians again thanks to wb,jim carrey,& tommy lee jones pity rivalry towards jim but at least these mentions affected the movies plot & characters from bruces dilemma with his parents death & wanting to quit being batman to live a normal life with chase to bringing back Harvey Dent aka Two-Face from the first film while batman returns hardly did any of that except for that brief vicky val mention by bruce but that didn't add anything to the story so yeah so anyone else feel like this?If so please comment i wanna see your opinions & thoughts about this.

[eledoremassis02]

I kinda like it. I mean I wish Dent was is it. But I like how Bruce became more consumed with being Batman and how it's kinda hard to tell the time span. A more direct sequel would have been interesting but something about Returns..I can't place it.

However, Forever does kinda of provides that direct sequal *in it's darker scenes* (I never thought of it that way before).

[greggbray]

It's strange...I've always kind of wanted a Batman 89 sequel, but not at the expense of Batman Returns.  I enjoy both world of stories quite a bit, though there are a number of aesthetic, motif, and even mood variations that make them seem quite stand-alone.  ....

I had hoped Batman III would be more like Batman 89..I remember being real hopeful in '93.  Ah, well. 

[The Dark Knight]

The aesthetic argument also applies to BF and B&R. Each film from that era changed up the aesthetic in some way.

What else was there really to comment on, narratively, after B89? Joker was defeated and his goons were rounded up. Batman was top dog and obviously remained so for some time. And then The Penguin emerged.

Name drops and references are just bonuses - and there's one with Bruce mentioning Vicki.

[Cobblepot4Mayor]

I have to respectfully disagree.

I know what you mean however. As a kid I couldn't even imagine Jack Nicholson's Joker in the world of Batman Returns. That's how different it felt. It's so much bleaker and black and white (no room for bright primary Joker colouring here). But I love that uniqueness. Until Michael Uslan pointed it out on the dvd's I didn't realise that each Batman film reflected a different time in the comics. Batman was all about 1939, Forever dealing with 1950's style issues, Batman and Robin mirroring the 1960's and tv show, while Returns best represents the horror-like Batman stories of the 90's. Even Batman Begins has a dash of the 70's comics about it.

I think sequels try far too hard today to all connect up rather than having the confidence to do what Batman Returns did. It gets to a point where it all feels like there merely chapters in an ongoing book rather than movies that can stand tall in their own right.

There is one thing however that has always irked me. The redesign of Wayne Manor! Granted it's a fantastic design and I love the Kenner playset of it I've always treasured. But since when did Wayne Manor go all vertical structure on a fairytale-esque hill? In the previous film it's a huge expansive mansion (rather similar in style to Christian Bale's in fact). So I think this is the only case where Burton expanded the sequel concept slightly too far.

[Catwoman]

& by different i mean act more like a sequel??Now don't get me wrong i love the burton films but i love batman 1989 the most & i always wished that batman returns acted more like a sequel rather then distance itself from the first film by completely revamping or reimaging gotham city however you want to put it,going darker when theres no need whatsoever & flat out becoming something new when the first film left so much to be brought back in the sequel....& i know some of you of you are gonna disagree with me on this but at least Batman Forever had the curiosity to mention past events that happen in the first films from jokers plans to poison gotham,penguins plans to kill the first born sons,the red triangle gang,& the two catwoman references said by chase on the rooftop with batman & a deleted scene where the riddler destroys the batcave more aka "It's gonna be be a hot time in a cold town tonight" i mean yeah BF had a mix tone thanks to wb & the villians were campy like in the 60's batman villians again thanks to wb,jim carrey,& tommy lee jones pity rivalry towards jim but at least these mentions affected the movies plot & characters from bruces dilemma with his parents death & wanting to quit being batman to live a normal life with chase to bringing back Harvey Dent aka Two-Face from the first film while batman returns hardly did any of that except for that brief vicky val mention by bruce but that didn't add anything to the story so yeah so anyone else feel like this?If so please comment i wanna see your opinions & thoughts about this.

you do know you can use punctuation to end a sentence more than one time in a post right? lol

i liked that returns sort of stood alone. it can be enjoyed either as a sequel or by itself. lots of people who aren't even big fans of the other movies love returns because of its tone as a dark fairy tale. just like a lot of people love batman because it is like the '80s with a cape and cowl lol. direct sequels are usually ultra lame so i like how tim and everyone kind of reimagined things. it COULD have been done in the same style and tone as 89 but it would have lost a lot of its charm. who knows though maybe it could have found some more. selina could have been dancing to madonna as she destroys schreck's lmao.

[Edd Grayson]

I liked that it was so different from Batman. It's not that I didn't like Batman, I love it, but I love the style of Returns even more. 

[Cobblepot4Mayor]

& by different i mean act more like a sequel??Now don't get me wrong i love the burton films but i love batman 1989 the most & i always wished that batman returns acted more like a sequel rather then distance itself from the first film by completely revamping or reimaging gotham city however you want to put it,going darker when theres no need whatsoever & flat out becoming something new when the first film left so much to be brought back in the sequel....& i know some of you of you are gonna disagree with me on this but at least Batman Forever had the curiosity to mention past events that happen in the first films from jokers plans to poison gotham,penguins plans to kill the first born sons,the red triangle gang,& the two catwoman references said by chase on the rooftop with batman & a deleted scene where the riddler destroys the batcave more aka "It's gonna be be a hot time in a cold town tonight" i mean yeah BF had a mix tone thanks to wb & the villians were campy like in the 60's batman villians again thanks to wb,jim carrey,& tommy lee jones pity rivalry towards jim but at least these mentions affected the movies plot & characters from bruces dilemma with his parents death & wanting to quit being batman to live a normal life with chase to bringing back Harvey Dent aka Two-Face from the first film while batman returns hardly did any of that except for that brief vicky val mention by bruce but that didn't add anything to the story so yeah so anyone else feel like this?If so please comment i wanna see your opinions & thoughts about this.

you do know you can use punctuation to end a sentence more than one time in a post right? lol

i liked that returns sort of stood alone. it can be enjoyed either as a sequel or by itself. lots of people who aren't even big fans of the other movies love returns because of its tone as a dark fairy tale. just like a lot of people love batman because it is like the '80s with a cape and cowl lol. direct sequels are usually ultra lame so i like how tim and everyone kind of reimagined things. it COULD have been done in the same style and tone as 89 but it would have lost a lot of its charm. who knows though maybe it could have found some more. selina could have been dancing to madonna as she destroys schreck's lmao.

Any specific Madonna tracks in mind for that sequence you imagined "Catwoman"? lol I'm thinking the "Frozen" song. It's the only one with a tone that can match Batman Returns. Had Siouxsie Sioux turned down Burton's offer (and she almost did if you watch her MTV interview) perhaps the producers would have approached "the Queen of Pop" instead.

[The Dark Knight]

Any specific Madonna tracks in mind for that sequence you imagined "Catwoman"? lol I'm thinking the "Frozen" song. It's the only one with a tone that can match Batman Returns. Had Siouxsie Sioux turned down Burton's offer (and she almost did if you watch her MTV interview) perhaps the producers would have approached "the Queen of Pop" instead.

Skin, from Ray of Light, is probably my favourite Madonna song. Give it a listen. A nice, sleek melancholy song (like most of Ray of Light's tracks) with lyrics which could line up with BR's themes - namely the tragic Bruce/Selina relationship.

[Cobblepot4Mayor]

Any specific Madonna tracks in mind for that sequence you imagined "Catwoman"? lol I'm thinking the "Frozen" song. It's the only one with a tone that can match Batman Returns. Had Siouxsie Sioux turned down Burton's offer (and she almost did if you watch her MTV interview) perhaps the producers would have approached "the Queen of Pop" instead.

Skin, from Ray of Light, is probably my favourite Madonna song. Give it a listen. A nice, sleek melancholy song (like most of Ray of Light's tracks) with lyrics which could line up with BR's themes - namely the tragic Bruce/Selina relationship.

You know I've never given that album much attention. Might go and check it out now as you say. It was quite shocking at the time when Madonna entered that "Frozen" era. The music sounded darker and less fun to me. I prefer her 80's to early 90's days myself. Originally I thought that album was out shortly after 1992 but it was in fact 1998.

Of course Madonna was even considered for Catwoman but I believe she turned it down. Perhaps it was too soon after the similar Dick Tracy. Or maybe the costume that became Pfeiffer's nightmare scared her off. At around that time she was making her controversial "Erotica" album. I like to think if she had signed on some of the songs from that album may have become a part of the Returns soundtrack. Michael Jackson almost got the first Batman so who knows some of those songs from "Bad" may have started life through that.

On "Erotica" there is a great ballad I've just heard called "Bad Girl". Someone needs to cut that to a Catwoman tribute video. Lyrically it can also tie in with Frank Miller's "prostitute" incarnation of Catwoman. Fascinatingly, to continue the Batman connection, the video starred none other than Christopher Walken (just shortly after completing his stay in Gotham City). It was even going to be directed by Tim Burton who turned the offer down. Maybe because of that Catwoman snub? lol