Gotham (Fox)

[johnnygobbs]

Overall I think this is a promising premise, whereas I get the impression with 'BvS' that Warner Bros is simply jumping on the 'Avengers' bandwagon and desperately trying to jump-start a team-movie ASAP.  They seem to be reacting to the market and the underwhelming response to 'Man of Steel' rather than devising a decent concept.

[Travesty]

Overall I think this is a promising premise, whereas I get the impression with 'BvS' that Warner Bros is simply jumping on the 'Avengers' bandwagon and desperately trying to jump-start a team-movie ASAP.  They seem to be reacting to the market and the underwhelming response to 'Man of Steel' rather than devising a decent concept.

But there's a difference here. With this new TV show, we know the concept that they're going with, an outline of who they'll use, how it'll look, and what tone(soap opera). With BvS, we just know who is going to be playing the heroes. Other than that, we don't know exactly what to expect. There's not much to go on.

[johnnygobbs]

Overall I think this is a promising premise, whereas I get the impression with 'BvS' that Warner Bros is simply jumping on the 'Avengers' bandwagon and desperately trying to jump-start a team-movie ASAP.  They seem to be reacting to the market and the underwhelming response to 'Man of Steel' rather than devising a decent concept.

But there's a difference here. With this new TV show, we know the concept that they're going with, an outline of who they'll use, how it'll look, and what tone(soap opera). With BvS, we just know who is going to be playing the heroes. Other than that, we don't know exactly what to expect. There's not much to go on.

But that's the point.  The Fox TV show is starting off with a concept, whereas the 'Man of Steel' follow-up seems to be changing all the time.  One moment it was going to be a straight sequel to the Superman film, the next moment it's Batman versus Superman, and now it seems like a prelude to a full-blown JLA movie.  Nobody seems to have made up their mind what the sequel is meant to be about and they seem to be casting before they even have a concept

[BatmAngelus]

To be fair, the Fox show was initially announced as "Detective Jim Gordon: The Series."  Now, it's announced that a big part of the series is the origin of Bruce into Batman, so there's a shift in the series premise and what we initially thought of the project as well.  We'll just have to see how much of the show is Gordon and how much is Bruce.

There's not much to go on either project, really, but, other than the specificity of "Bruce won't become Batman until the end of the TV series," I think we know less about Gotham than about BvS, by virtue of the latter being a sequel.  We've seen MoS and have a template for the tone and vision they've got with Superman, as well as which cast members and characters are returning.  We at least know the type of Superman, Lois Lane, Perry White, and Martha Kent that we'll be seeing again.  We know BvS's approach to Affleck's Batman based off of multiple statements- he's the "weary, seasoned veteran Batman" with a bit of a Dark Knight Returns influence.  We know where they're filming for Gotham and Metropolis as well as when they'll start filming.  We know they're at least introducing Batman and Wonder Woman here and it's no secret WB wants this to help them lead up to a Justice League movie.

For all we know, BvS might be the greatest superhero movie of all time and Gotham might join Birds of Prey as one of the DC shows best left forgotten. 

Or the reverse might happen. 

Or they both might be terrible. 

Or, best case scenario, they'll both be great.

[johnnygobbs]

Perhaps if I'd liked 'MOS' more I'd have higher hopes for the sequel.  I don't despise 'MOS' but I still think it's a much weaker Superman movie than the 1978 Donner/Reeve one, or even its immediate sequel, and I find it hard to see where the franchise can take the character seeing as it seemed to jettison a lot of the double-life aspect that makes Clark Kent/Superman such a fascinating hero to begin with.

By contrast, a Fox, as opposed to CW, TV show dealing with the early career of Commissioner Gordon and moreover, the early lives of Batman's Rogues Gallery really excites me.  We might get a chance to see versions of Loeb and Flass that are much closer to their 'Batman Year One' counterparts than we saw in 'Batman Begins' where Loeb was merely incompetent rather than outright corrupt, and Flass was another fat Bullock/Eckhart clone as opposed to a relatively intimidating blonde, buzz-cut jock.  We might also finally meet Bullock on-screen, although it's probably way too early to expect Montoya to show up.  I also love the idea of dealing with Selina Kyle and Harvey Dent, among others, as children or young adults.  We might perhaps get a glimpse of the childhood abuse that made these characters into the criminal and/or tormented figures they became in the comic-books.  Perhaps we'll also see Roman Sionis a character who has yet to be portrayed onscreen as a bad-seed peer of Bruce Wayne.  The possibilities are endless and potentially allow for some very interesting angles into characters who have barely been covered onscreen before.

By contrast, I've never been all that excited by Batman in the JLA universe (even though I do like the JLA as a group and long to see Wonder Woman and the Flash brought to the big-screen, and hopefully a half-decent version of Green Lantern too).  Although I'm of the opinion that Nolan went too far in the 'gritty realism' direction and sadly omitted a lot of the literal colour and outlandishness that makes the comic-books (along with the Burton films and the animated series) so enjoyable I still believe that Batman works best in at least a semi-grounded, non-sci-fi setting that doesn't involve aliens or super-beings.  A bit of fantasy perhaps, but with the overall focus on OTT but still non-magical, credible villains.

[Travesty]

Heh, I don't know why we're now comparing them? One will be a Batman movie, and one will be a show about Batman's characters, without ever seeing Batman(until the last episode).

They're not even close to being the same thing, IMO.

[BatmAngelus]

Why compare?  Simple.  They're both upcoming iterations of Bruce Wayne and his universe.  johnnygobbs is simply stating which one feels more exciting and interesting to him, based on the current information.

[The Laughing Fish]

Take this with a grain of salt, but somebody claims to have read a rough draft for the pilot. And by the sounds of it, it's utterly terrible.

What We Learned from the Script for Gotham's First Episode

Gotham is one of this fall's most anticipated new TV shows: the story of Jim Gordon and Gotham City, years before Batman. We obtained what appears to be a draft of the first episode, although it could be fake or draft that will change a lot before filming. If the script is for real, then Gotham has some terrific potential — but it also may have much bigger issues than Batman being 12 years old.

Update: The script draft is dated Jan. 31, 2014 and labeled "Second Network Draft," so if it's real, it's not a particularly early draft. But that said, it's hard to judge a work in progress, and a lot can change before and during filming. With that out of the way, some spoilers ahead...

The pilot of Gotham is primarily about new detective James Gordon getting the tour of Gotham City from his new, morals-challenged partner Harvey Bullock, while they try to solve the murder of Bruce Wayne's parents (who is by all accounts is a 10 or 12 year old in the show). What at first appears to be a simple mugging turns into something much more, and you'd have to have never read a Batman comic or watched a crime procedural to not realize that corruption infests Gotham at all levels, not just on the streets.

The main problem with Gotham is that it's the most exposition-filled, perfunctory TV episode I've ever seen. Not only does Gotham want to introduce its entire cast, which it does without subtlety or any attempt at characterization, but it derails the entirety of the show, because Gordon and Bullock have to stop everywhere and introduce everybody while ostensibly trying to solve the crime. It's not the least common problem for a pilot to have, but Gotham is over-stuffed even before the script has to spend 20 minutes just spelling out the Batman-ness of it all.

And boy, does Gotham want you to know it's a Batman show, despite its lack of Batman. The show clearly has no faith in its premise, because it simply screams everything that eventually becomes a part of the Batman mythos, as if it knows people would rather be watching a show about regular Batman and his villains. It's like it's concerned that it will only be seen by people who have never seen a Batman movie or read a Batman comic before. Those people might appreciate the fact that whenever young henchman Oswald Cobblepot shows up, someone mentions "He looks like a penguin" every single time, but for everyone who even has a passing knowledge of Bat-lore, it's like being bludgeoned to death with the Bat-signal.

That's the sort of thing that can be overcome in later episodes. Gotham's second problem is Gordon and Bullock, who somehow manage to twist the rich comics characters into a standard "naïve young rookie cop partnered with jaded, disillusioned older cop who cut corners." Bullock, played by the excellent Donal Logue, reads pretty much like every cop character Logue has ever played, which means he's a bit more of a charming slacker than the gruff, bitter Bullock we know from the comics and cartoons, which is fine.

But young Jim Gordon is painfully naïve. I understand Gotham wants to contrast Gordon's idealism with the grim realities of Gotham City, but it does so at the cost of making its lead character often look like a moron. Gordon is supposed to have grown up in Gotham, and yet he's constantly boggled at every single crime that happens. Gordon does awaken somewhat to Gotham's grim realities by the end of the pilot, so hopefully later episodes will feature a more savvy Gordon, one who can navigate the treachery of Gotham's underworld and politics.

My biggest worry, though, is the dialogue. The script was written by Bruno Heller, co-creator of The Mentalist and writer of many episodes of HBO's Rome series, so he has some chops. But Heller seems to want to include a touch of '30s gangster-speak in Gotham, and it stretches the show's already thin suspension-of-disbelief way past the breaking point — unless you regularly call people "mopes," "loonybirds," "skell huggers, "sugar bunnies," or "a cool glass of milk."

Honestly, I'm still not sold on a Batman show where Batman is 12, because even if the show gets to the point where Bruce Wayne does become Batman, most of his enemies will be pushing 40. But I don't have a problem with any of Gotham's Batman-ness (other than how they shoehorn in and awkwardly introduce 'em all). Gotham's real problems are its uninspired writing, stereotypical characters, and most egregiously, its dialogue. I hate to say it, but this might be a job for 12-year-old Superman.

Want more plots details and specifics? Here's the SPOILERS section:

• Here's the proto-villains introduced in the pilot: A 14-year-old Catwoman, already cat-burglering and associating with cats; the Riddler, who is working for the GCPD as a coroner and who tries to present all pertinent case information as riddles; the Penguin, a mid-level thug, who as mentioned earlier is repeatedly referred to as looking like a penguin.

• Additionally, Gordon and Bullock enter a run-down apartment where a little girl named Ivy lives with her sh*tty parents and, according to the script, a lot of houseplants. Could this perhaps be Poison Ivy? Well, in the comics, Poison Ivy's real name is Pamela Isley. Is Gotham giving us a clever feint here? Probably not.

• There's also a comedian telling jokes in gangster Fish Mooney's club, jokes straight out of Reader's Digest circa 1942. Mooney laughs hysterically, and, just in case those feelings were somehow opaque to the audiences, she tells the comedian she likes him. A lot. Repeatedly.

• Major Crimes detective Renee Montoya used to date Gordon's fiancée, because LESBIANS. And for bonus points, Bullock even calls her a dyke. Fun!

• Alfred appears to have a crazy cockney accent, and I swear to god this is real dialogue from the script:

ALFRED: Oi! Master Bruce! Stop playing silly buggers! Get your bloody arse down off there!
• One more line for the road from Gordon's fiancée:

BARBARA (blithely): Jim, you are the cleverest, bravest, goodest man in Gotham.

Source: http://io9.com/what-we-learned-from-the-script-for-gothams-first-epi-1530515272

[johnnygobbs]

Oh dear!  That does sound alarming.

My biggest concern is that the overall premise has so much potential.  If they bugger it up there's little chance of someone getting the chance to properly explore the characters' backstories later on.

I think there should be a rule instituted in Hollywood that states that anyone who messes up an important property like Batman/Superman/Spider-Man etc doesn't get a chance to work in the industry ever again.  That's it.  You had a rare chance nobody else had and you blew it.  Now F*** Off and find another industry to debase with your lack of talent.

[The Laughing Fish]

'Gotham' TV Series Synopsis, Logo, & New Story Details Revealed


It's been one week since Gotham announced the casting of its young Bruce Wayne (and Selina Kyle) – leaving Bat-fans to speculate on how big a role the pre-Caped Crusader will play in FOX's prequel storyline. The topic was a major point of contention on this week's Screen Rant Underground podcast – where we debated whether or not young Master Wayne (played by David Mazouz) will eventually steal the series' spotlight from main protagonist Detective James Gordon (Ben McKenzie).

Gotham has been pitched as an origin tale for the city's iconic villains and do-good coppers – not a "Batman story." As a result, certain fans expect Bruce Wayne's involvement to be minor – while others believe that we'll see a much more hands-on version of the teenage billionaire (especially as he gets older and stronger in future seasons). Of course, the show doesn't premiere until fall 2014 – meaning potential viewers will have to wait awhile for answers. In the meantime, Fox has released a lengthy synopsis that provides a glimpse at what we can expect – as well as how the characters of Gordon and Wayne will be utilized.

The synopsis is lengthy, so we've pulled out key highlights for those that are still getting up to speed on Gotham news – as well as anyone who just doesn't want to read the entire thing.

Check out the highlights below followed by our analysis of what the new story details could mean for Gotham (or simply click to the second page of this post to read the full synopsis).

• Gotham is an "origin story of the great DC Comics super villains and vigilantes" – and the plot synopsis confirms the show plans to cover the "circumstances" that create Catwoman, The Penguin, The Riddler, Two-Face and The Joker
• Gordon's father used to serve Gotham as District Attorney – and the rookie detective, who is engaged to Barbara Kean, "hopes to restore the city back to the pure version he remembers it was as a kid."
• Partnered with the "brash, but shrewd police legend" Harvey Bullock – Gordon is assigned to investigate the murders of Thomas and Martha Wayne. In the process, Gordon meets the sole survivor: Bruce Wayne.
• Bruce Wayne is described as a hauntingly intense twelve-year-old son – toward whom Gordon feels an "inexplicable kinship."
• Following Gordon as he rises through the ranks at the GCPD, Gotham will also "focus on the unlikely friendship Gordon forms with the young heir to the Wayne fortune." Additionally, the plot synopsis suggests the show will chronicle "the birth of one of the most popular super heroes of our time."

While the Penguin and Catwoman have been cast already, it's interesting to see the synopsis outright name drop Riddler, Joker and Two-Face as potential inclusions so early in the process. Obviously, Gotham is a prequel series, meaning that the show could incorporate both mainline Bat-baddies – by depicting the men they were before transforming into full-on super villains. Previously, we heard insider reports suggesting the Joker and the Riddler would be featured at some point in the show; yet, this is the first official news we're hearing of Two-Face. Still, a storyline involving a youthful Harvey Dent who works with Gordon to lock-up criminals (prior to becoming one himself) is rife with potential.

Source: http://screenrant.com/gotham-tv-show-synopsis-logo/

I like the title card, very faithful Gotham City's iconic imagery. Of course, I doubt the show's cinematography will resemble anything like that.

As for the rest of the show- it's a must-miss for me.