What if Burton had made a third Batman...

[johnnygobbs]

http://www.hitfix.com/news/what-if-tim-burton-returned-to-direct-a-third-batman-film

I found the above 'what if' article and refreshingly, it's a pretty positive assessment of what might have happened had Burton continued with the franchise.  Even the comments are thankfully slanted to the positive rather than the currently fashionable Burton-hatred.

On a side-note covered by the article and the comments, I think Burton has only really made three bad to mediocre films, the rest being either excellent (the 'Batman' movies, 'Edward Scissorhands', 'Sweeney Todd', 'Ed Wood' and the grossly underrated 'Mars Attacks!') or very good ('Sleepy Hollow', 'Big Fish', 'Pee-Wee', 'Beetlejuice' and the again underrated 'Charlie...Chocolate Factory').  The three duds IMHO are the 'Planet of the Apes' remake (Burton doesn't really do science fiction, his forte being whimsy and the intentional subversion of logic/science), 'Alice in Wonderland' (the one time where I really did think Burton was falling into hack-territory) and the episodic and underwhelming 'Dark Shadows'.

[BatmanFanatic93]

Whoa deva-ju i just remembered i did something similar like this but put the realization of what could have been
http://imakaijufan2.deviantart.com/journal/Tim-Burton-s-Batman-Forever-and-the-realization-369809580

[The Dark Knight]

The three duds IMHO are the 'Planet of the Apes' remake (Burton doesn't really do science fiction, his forte being whimsy and the intentional subversion of logic/science)

Granted. I never took to this movie.

'Alice in Wonderland' (the one time where I really did think Burton was falling into hack-territory)

Agreed. This felt very going through the motions and lacklustre. A Burton film with little atmosphere, which is usually his biggest strength.

and the episodic and underwhelming 'Dark Shadows'.

I really enjoyed Dark Shadows, even if it evokes Edward Scissorhands a bit too much.

[johnnygobbs]

I really enjoyed Dark Shadows, even if it evokes Edward Scissorhands a bit too much.

Of the three 'duds' I mentioned I'll grant that 'Dark Shadows' has got the most going for it.  Depp is far better here than he was as the Mad Hatter or Willy Wonka, there are some decent laughs, the seduction scene/fight between Barnabas and Angelique is exciting and funny and the final action scene is pretty tense.  The problem is inherent in the very concept; adapting an episodic TV soap-opera for the big-screen.  Too many plot-threads and promising characters, particularly Roger Collins (Johnny Lee Miller) go nowhere and so even accepting for Burton's usual strengths, atmosphere, humour/perceptive satire and characterisation, the movie ultimately feels like less than the sum of its parts.

[Silver Nemesis]

My opinion is that Burton was on a winning streak up to and including Sleepy Hollow (1999). But since then the only movie of his I've really liked was Big Fish (2003). I'd say his career peaked with Ed Wood (1994) and reached a low point with Alice in Wonderland (2010).

Having said that, his latest film sounds like his most interesting project in years. It's a biopic of painter Margaret Keane titled Big Eyes (2014). It's been written by Scott Alexander and Larry Karaszewski, the same writing team behind Ed Wood. And best of all there are no Johnny Depps or Helena Bonham Carters anywhere on the cast list. It's precisely the kind of intriguing project Burton needs to get his reputation out of the gutter. And it's the first film of his I've found myself looking forward to in years.

[johnnygobbs]

My opinion is that Burton was on a winning streak up to and including Sleepy Hollow (1999). But since then the only movie of his I've really liked was Big Fish (2003). I'd say his career peaked with Ed Wood (1994) and reached a low point with Alice in Wonderland (2010).

Having said that, his latest film sounds like his most interesting project in years. It's a biopic of painter Margaret Keane titled Big Eyes (2014). It's been written by Scott Alexander and Larry Karaszewski, the same writing team behind Ed Wood. And best of all there are no Johnny Depps or Helena Bonham Carters anywhere on the cast list. It's precisely the kind of intriguing project Burton needs to get his reputation out of the gutter. And it's the first film of his I've found myself looking forward to in years.

I agree with you on 'Big Eyes'.  I love Burton's brand of whimsy but I'm also anxious that one of my all-time favourite directors tends to get sniffed at a lot by the critical community.  A dramatic biopic, albeit one that will allow him to focus on the type of quirky, idiosyncratic art that seems to have partly inspired his career thereby lending the project a genuine personal bent, seems the type of film that might restore his reputation with the 'serious' critics.  It's also about time he made a new film that didn't feature either Depp or Bonham Carter.

However, as far as Burton's recent record goes I'm curious as to why you don't seem to care for 'Sweeney Todd' Silver.  I thought the film was an unequivocal success both from a technical standpoint and as a truly affecting and powerful musical-tragedy, and was one of those rare occasions were Depp and Bonham Carter were almost uncannily perfect for their parts (admittedly Depp is physically too weedy to play the 'definitive' Todd but in all other respects he was an excellent fit).  Bonham Carter in particular was touching as a woman who enables Todd in his fated quest for revenge out of an unrequited longing for her partner-in-crime and all those quibbles about her singing voice lacking classical training seem churlish in view of the raw emotion she brought to the songs.

[Vampfox]

I think that Burton gets a lot of unfair criticism. Yes he's guilty of using a lot of the same actors in his movies but it's not like he's the only film director that uses a lot of the same actors.

[Azrael]

My opinion is that Burton was on a winning streak up to and including Sleepy Hollow (1999). But since then the only movie of his I've really liked was Big Fish (2003). I'd say his career peaked with Ed Wood (1994) and reached a low point with Alice in Wonderland (2010).

Having said that, his latest film sounds like his most interesting project in years. It's a biopic of painter Margaret Keane titled Big Eyes (2014). It's been written by Scott Alexander and Larry Karaszewski, the same writing team behind Ed Wood. And best of all there are no Johnny Depps or Helena Bonham Carters anywhere on the cast list. It's precisely the kind of intriguing project Burton needs to get his reputation out of the gutter. And it's the first film of his I've found myself looking forward to in years.

Word.

[The Dark Knight]

It can be a difficult task nailing down a scatter brain with ideas going everywhere at once. When Burton doesn't get it right, it's average or below average. When he gets it right, he really gets it right.

[Silver Nemesis]

However, as far as Burton's recent record goes I'm curious as to why you don't seem to care for 'Sweeney Todd' Silver.  I thought the film was an unequivocal success both from a technical standpoint and as a truly affecting and powerful musical-tragedy, and was one of those rare occasions were Depp and Bonham Carter were almost uncannily perfect for their parts (admittedly Depp is physically too weedy to play the 'definitive' Todd but in all other respects he was an excellent fit).  Bonham Carter in particular was touching as a woman who enables Todd in his fated quest for revenge out of an unrequited longing for her partner-in-crime and all those quibbles about her singing voice lacking classical training seem churlish in view of the raw emotion she brought to the songs.

Oh, I'm sure it is a good movie. It's got an 86% rating on Rotten Tomatoes and it won an Academy Award for art direction. And I'm sure everything you say about it is true. It's just not my cup of tea.

I feel that Burton's influence on the film is purely cosmetic. Since he was adapting a stage musical, I'd imagine he had less scope to reinterpret the source material according to his own creative tastes. Consequently it's a movie anyone could have directed. The only distinctly 'Burtonish' elements were the visuals. It doesn't have the uniquely personal resonance of something like Big Fish or Edward Scissorhands.

This is a problem I have with a lot of Burton's recent films. His signature style has been reduced to a superficial aesthetic. His latest films don't display any of the ideas or substance that characterised his earlier work. Not unless it's stuff he's repeating from his older films. I just want him to try something new, to take on new genres, to push himself and work with new people. He could still have a lot to offer audiences. But in recent years it feels like he's stagnated, playing it safe and offering us the same thing over and over.

But Sweeney Todd is certainly one of his better 21st century offerings. It is a good film. It's just not to my tastes. I used to own the DVD, but I donated it to a charity shop earlier this year (my DVD of The Corpse Bride met the same fate).

It can be a difficult task nailing down a scatter brain with ideas going everywhere at once. When Burton doesn't get it right, it's average or below average. When he gets it right, he really gets it right.

That's precisely why Ed Wood (1994) was Burton's masterpiece. No other director, from any country or any time period, could have made that movie as well as Burton did. His was the perfect creative mind to tackle that particular subject matter.

I don't think he was especially well suited to some of his more recent projects. But the Keane biopic could get him back on track.