Comic Creators Comment on Batman Movies

[Silver Nemesis]

Here's an interesting extended discussion between Denny O'Neil and Daniel Fingeroth at a 25th anniversary screening of Batman '89. O'Neil gives his opinion on the film, talks about his involvement with the comic adaptation and novelisation, answers questions regarding Batman killing and which Batman actor is his favourite, and shares some of his hopes for the then-upcoming Batman v Superman film.

[thecolorsblend]

Comic pros share their hot takes on Batman Forever moments after seeing it in back in 1995. This is what they thought of BF at the time. Transcribed from Wizard #49, September 1995, pg. 21.

-- Marla Alquiza
I attended the Hollywood premiere and it was like the Academy Awards. I went to get popcorn, and ahead of me in line was Cindy Crawford. Then I went to the bathroom, and Wesley Snipes is beside me talking around me to Steven Baldwin. When I left, I bumped into Quincy Jones. They were all like regular people, and they were talking about the movie! The audience loved it, and I thought it was great. It never let up, and Val Kilmer makes a much better Batman than Michael Keaton.

-- Kurt Busiek
I'd rather see them try to adapt the source material than the medium -- the medium won't translate. Emphasizing bright colors over character concepts and plot logic seems pretty contemptuous of the material to me. I kept checking my watch to see when it was going to end.

-- Peter David
There were some fundamental weaknesses in the script that the direction and acting couldn't surmount. But they produced exactly the movie they set out to produce. They wanted to save the Batman franchise and make him more friendly than in the first two. Batman Forever is much more evocative of the TV show. The script also managed the amazing feat of taking Two-Face and making him one-note.

-- Dan Jurgens
It was pretty enjoyable, but I thought Val Kilmer was too wooden, especially as Bruce Wayne. To me, Michael Keaton had more of a twinkle in his eye. But Robin was a breath of fresh air. He showed how important Robin is to the legend of Batman. Without Robin, this movie would have been awful. And I loved the mention of Metropolis! ... Overall, it was a lot of fun and less claustrophobic than the first two.

-- Ron Marz
It was much better than Batman Returns, but it suffered from the same problem: It was eye candy. Visually, it was great but the story was a mess. But it's probably as good as we can from a major Hollywood movie with huge licensing needs. It's a juggernaut.

-- Heidi MacDonald
The movie is really beyond good or bad, it kind of just happens. I felt like I'd been trapped in a a pinball machine. Val Kilmer was the Batman of my dreams; the scenes of him plummeting, cape billowing, were excellent. For the first time, I actually got a sense of Batman's power and heroism.

-- Brian Pulido
It was like being in an amusement park. It had killer camera moves, lighting, art direction and costumes. The cast was great. Nicole Kidman may make a good Lady Death, and Joel Schumacher can direct [an] Evil Ernie [movie] any time.

-- Alex Ross
I enjoyed the movie's look, it was very exciting and beautiful. The circus just blew me away, with the huge statues and everything. I was very entertained, but if I'd stopped to think about the plot, I'd have gone insane. The only negative is that the Batman movies affect how the entire industry decides to make superhero films. They don't respect the material or realize that these movies don't have to be huge-budget epics. It could have been like Batman: Year One and been made on a shoestring budget, too.

-- Mark Waid
I loved it! I haven't enjoyed a comics movie so much since Superman: The Movie. Sure, you have to turn your brain off at the door. But unlike the first two, this one had a plot, and I'm appreciative. I thought the Riddler's master plan was over the top and not something we'd do in a comic book, but chances are too great that you could go into a comic shop, throw a stick, and hit a comic with a sillier Master Plan. I'm going again, I liked it so much.

[Silver Nemesis]

Great find, colors. I've never seen any of these quotes before now. I can't say I'm surprised that Waid loved the movie, considering his own creative sensibilities have always been firmly aligned with the Silver Age. Most of the other responses seem fairly measured: they liked the visuals, but thought it lacked substance. A lot of fans on this site would disagree with that appraisal, but it's pretty typical of the wider consensus.

[thecolorsblend]

Great find, colors. I've never seen any of these quotes before now. I can't say I'm surprised that Waid loved the movie, considering his own creative sensibilities have always been firmly aligned with the Silver Age. Most of the other responses seem fairly measured: they liked the visuals, but thought it lacked substance. A lot of fans on this site would disagree with that appraisal, but it's pretty typical of the wider consensus.

It's strange to think how controversial BF was back in 1995. It was starting to become okay for comic book fans to have quibbles and misgivings with Burton's films. That would happen even more in subsequent years, as we all know. But at that time, it was so common that it was assumed by a lot of fans before BF came out that change is good. The movie fans saw in 1995 was ultimately regarded as a lateral move: Some things were better than Burton, other things were worse but most things were no improvement at all.

I think fans have since reevaluated BF and it's more appreciated now. I maintain that if BF came out for the first time today, $1 billion worldwide is virtually guaranteed. There's a strong argument that Schumacher's REAL problem is that he was way too far ahead of his time.

[Silver Nemesis]

You're probably right about BF being more warmly received if released today than in the nineties. Modern critics would have lauded its humour and celebrated its perceived homoerotic undertones. In fact if anything, modern critics would probably have criticised it for not being gay enough. I think they'd still take issue with the performance of Tommy Lee Jones, and they'd have criticised the casting for its lack of people of colour in prominent roles. But overall, I expect they'd have liked it. And no critic nowadays would have dared criticise Alicia Silverstone for her portrayal of Batgirl in Batman & Robin. Instead they'd have highlighted her as one of the film's strengths.

To be fair though, the majority of critics back in the nineties liked BF too. Even now, it's rated 61% 'Fresh' with Top Critics on Rotten Tomatoes.

A few years ago I calculated that if you were to exclude the post-1995 reviews from the Rotten Tomatoes aggregate and count only the original reviews, then Batman Forever would have an RT score of about 69% (this has probably changed since then with the addition of more old reviews). That's the same rating Joker has. Now obviously I'm not saying it would be as acclaimed as Joker if released today. Not by a long shot. But the modern negativity surrounding the film does seem to have been exacerbated by later reviewers and bloggers whose evaluations penetrate no deeper than the usual bat-nipple/campiness/bat-ass complaints. With this year being the 25th anniversary, it's high time the movie was re-evaluated on a larger scale.

I probably have a higher opinion of BF than most, since whenever I watch it nowadays I usually watch fan edits like the Red Book or Virtual Workprint cuts. The ideal scenario would be for Warner Bros to release an official edit done in a similar style to celebrate the film's 25th anniversary. That would allow a wider audience to get acquainted with the film's hidden strengths. But we know this won't happen, since WB doesn't give a toss about the older Batman movies. Still, we'll have to make sure we celebrate the anniversary here on Batman-Online when the summer arrives. Hopefully the site will be up and running properly by then so we can post some features on the subject.

As for the idea of Batman Forever reaching a billion in 2020 – BF made $184,031,112 domestically in 1995. According to Forbes, that would be around $381.2 million today:  https://www.forbes.com/sites/travisbean/2019/10/21/box-office-where-joker-currently-ranks-amongst-all-dc-films/#778b4a1627ad

It made 45.3% of its global takings outside the US. But that percentage would be a lot higher today owing to the expansion of overseas markets in the past 25 years. Especially China. For example, Spider-Man: Far From Home made 65.5% of its WW cume from overseas markets last year. Its domestic takings were $390.5 million, which is only $10 million more than BF's US gross when adjusted for inflation. And Far From Home grossed $1,131,927,996 WW. So based on its adjusted domestic gross, and assuming BF had a similar 35:65% domestic/overseas box office split as Far From Home (it might not have been as popular overseas as SM:FFH, but for now let's assume it would be), then BF would stand an excellent chance of passing $1 billion WW in 2020.

[The Laughing Fish]

Jason Fabok went on Twitter to reveal artwork of his Burton-inspired Batman for the upcoming Three Jokers story.

I based the look on Killing Joke (LOTS of visual nods to it in this book) Batman 89 and the Animated Series.  Those are the books that set the standard for what Batman looked like for me growing up.  It just feels classic.

https://www.twitter.com/JasonFabok/status/1245055495523708930

Batman 89 is my favorite batman...so I put lots of nods to it in this story.  I figured, what the hell, it makes me feel good.

https://www.twitter.com/JasonFabok/status/1245048450712035328

As much as I love any artist showing their appreciation for Burton's Batman, I get a little wary over Fabok teaming with nostalgiaholic Geoff Johns to make Three Jokers. I guess Johns must have been an influence.