Comic Creators Comment on Batman Movies

[johnnygobbs]

In Batman '89 it is clearly implied that Bruce tested the various chemical products The Joker had poisoned to determine which mixtures were in fact toxic.  That strikes me as far more sophisticated detective work, albeit of a forensic/scientific nature, than anything undertaken by Bruce in the other various Batman movies.

Not really. A different kind, yes. But not something better really, if that's what you're trying to say. Though I haven't thought that scientific examination is something that I'd count specifically as detective work perse. Have a very great day!

God bless you! God bless everyone!

I like you Dagenspear but occasionally I think you unfairly put down the Burton movies, possibly as a means of elevating the Nolan films. 

[Silver Nemesis]

To be fair, Burton fans do the exact same thing: constantly slagging off Nolan's films to emphasise merits in Burton's.

[Dagenspear]

I like you Dagenspear but occasionally I think you unfairly put down the Burton movies, possibly as a means of elevating the Nolan films. 

There's no down putting by saying that it's not much different. I'd say putting down is saying that others aren't as sophisticated as one. Though there's no need to elevate the Nolan movies. I think some unfairly put those down here. Have a very great day!

God bless you! God bless everyone!

[johnnygobbs]

To be fair, Burton fans do the exact same thing: constantly slagging off Nolan's films to emphasise merits in Burton's.

I like both.  I suspect most of you guys know that by now.    But in my experience, looking across the web as a whole, most people, critics and fans alike, seem to put down the Burton films more often than they do the Nolan ones.

And my point to Dagenspear, who I know does like the Burton films, was simply to highlight that they do feature Bruce/Batman doing detective work, including testing The Joker products and researching files regarding Jack Napier and later, The Red Triangle Circus Gang.

[The Laughing Fish]

To be fair, Burton fans do the exact same thing: constantly slagging off Nolan's films to emphasise merits in Burton's.

It could be that...or quite simply, a lot of these Burton (and even non-Burton) fans genuinely didn't like the Nolan films and have issues with them. Some prefer Affleck and Snyder's take better, and there are some who don't like that version either. I've no doubt others feel the opposite, as much as I disagree. It happens, different strokes for different folks.

I thought I'd revisit Frank Miller's comments from two years ago as he expresses his distaste for all the Batman films:

PLAYBOY: There's a consensus that Daredevil and Elektra, two movies adapted from comics you wrote, were lousy. Do you agree with that opinion?

MILLER: When people come out with movies about characters I've worked on, I always hate them. I have my own ideas about what the characters are like. I mean, I can't watch a Batman movie. I've seen pieces of them, but I generally think, No, that's not him. And I walk out of the theater before it's over.

PLAYBOY: Does that include the Christopher Nolan Batman movies?

MILLER: It includes all of them. I'm not condemning what he does. I don't even understand it, except that he seems to think he owns the title Dark Knight. [laughs] He's about 20 years too late for that. It's been used.

PLAYBOY: Nolan's last two Batman movies each grossed more than $1 billion worldwide. Does any of that money make its way to you?

MILLER: No. If money's owed me, I wouldn't put it on him or any other author. To be sitting here whining and mewling and puking about that sort of thing...let other people do that.

Source: http://comicbook.com/blog/2014/08/19/frank-miller-walked-out-on-christopher-nolans-batman-movies/

But back in 2005, this is what he said about Batman Begins:

"I thought they did a really, really good job. I mean, I walked out of that movie with a smile on my face; I thought it was a really strong interpretation of the character, and they knew what to borrow from and how much. I got a major kick out of the fact that they used that bit where he calls on the bats to attack the cops and that sort of thing, and I loved Gary Oldman's interpretation of exactly the Jim Gordon that I'd written in Batman: Year One. But it was [Christopher] Nolan's movie and [Christian] Bale's movie, and I just simply absorbed it and enjoyed the hell out of it."

Source: http://uk.ign.com/articles/2005/08/20/frank-miller-interview?page=2

So why did Miller, a decade later, suddenly disregarded everything about BB as with the rest of the other movies ? I suspect it could be either of these three reasons:

• He forgot about BB.
• He liked it the first time he watched it, but then he had a change of heart the second time.
• He was paid to give it a good review back in 2005. It's a cynical suggestion, but shills are common in Hollywood. Who knows, perhaps those in the industry who claimed to like B89 and BR when they first came out secretly didn't like them after all, and felt more comfortable to voice their distaste much later.

[The Dark Knight]

It could be that...or quite simply, a lot of these Burton (and even non-Burton) fans genuinely didn't like the Nolan films and have issues with them. Some prefer Affleck and Snyder's take better, and there are some who don't like that version either. I've no doubt others feel the opposite, as much as I disagree. It happens, different strokes for different folks.

Yep. And again....it's personal. Burton and Nolan camps generally don't get on.

[Silver Nemesis]

I like both.  I suspect most of you guys know that by now.    But in my experience, looking across the web as a whole, most people, critics and fans alike, seem to put down the Burton films more often than they do the Nolan ones.

That was certainly true five years ago, but I've observed a very noticeable shift in attitude since 2012. The widespread hyperbole surrounding The Dark Knight trilogy has largely subsided since then. Of course there are still overzealous quarters of the fanbase who maintain the films' flawlessness, just like there are overzealous fans of Burton and Snyder who obtusely refuse to acknowledge any flaws in their films. But overall, I'd say the majority of casual cinemagoers have a more objective view of Nolan's films now than they did prior to 2012. I'm certainly seeing a lot more criticism of Nolan these days, as well as a lot more appreciation for Burton's films.

I remember as a kid when the Burton films were popular and it became trendy to dismiss the Adam West Batman. That prompted many fans of the sixties TV show to lash out at B89 and BR, and you still occasionally see some of them doing it on sites like 66Batman.com. Then when Batman Begins was released it became trendy to trash the Burton films, which spurred many Burton fans into defence mode where they became the most vocal critics of the TDK trilogy (admittedly I myself was one of these people for a while). Then after the DCEU reboot was announced it became fashionable to slag off Nolan's films, which is likely why many Nolan fans presently feel resentful towards Snyder's Batman. We've seen it all before - fans of one interpretation feel threatened by its successor. It's a behavioural pattern that should be familiar to long-time Batman enthusiasts, and it's unlikely to change any time soon. The next reboot will likely incur the resentment of the DCEU fans. And the cycle will continue ad infinitum.

Ultimately all the Batman films have flaws and strengths, but the general audience's willingness to acknowledge them is largely subject to trends. When the Burton films were popular the sixties Batman wasn't. Then when Nolan's films became popular the sixties Batman was re-evaluated, which resulted in the release of the DVD and Batman 66 comic. Now interest in both the Nolan films and the sixties Batman is waning and the Burton films are getting a re-evaluation. The consensus is essentially a pendulum that swings back and forth. Each interpretation gets its moment in the sun, as well as its moment in the dog house.

Yep. And again....it's personal. Burton and Nolan camps generally don't get on.

And that's incredibly sad. There are few things in this world more pathetic than comic book fan sectarianism.

[The Dark Knight]

And that's incredibly sad. There are few things in this world more pathetic than comic book fan sectarianism.

As Keaton's Batman said, "it's not a perfect world."

I do think both sides would enjoy the other product if there wasn't so much angst.

[The Laughing Fish]

As Keaton's Batman said, "it's not a perfect world."

I do think both sides would enjoy the other product if there wasn't so much angst.

Not necessarily. Some people would still dislike certain movies regardless how popular they are. Let's call it a matter of personal taste.

[The Dark Knight]

Yes, however even if a Burton fan, for example, is willing to give the Nolan films a chance, they're not going to warm to them as readily if they're shouted down and mocked by the other side.