More defense of Schumacher's films (video)

[The Laughing Fish]

I thought about starting another thread, but I thought it would be more appropriate to post this here.

I listened to this podcast on a show called Trentus Magnus Punches Reality. The show's host defends the Schumacher's movies by arguing they aren't the biggest crimes against humanity as many people make them out to be, despite their legitimate problems. Magnus - the host - argues that there is a bit of depth going on in BF and B&R e.g. Bruce trying to prevent Dick from going down the same murderous path as he did, and how the two needed to make amends in the fourth film for not only Alfred's sake, but themselves as a team. And among other things, he he doesn't mind how Two-Face is portrayed in Forever; in fact, he argues that people would be scared of him if he existed in real life.

You can listen to the podcast here, but you'll need to fast forward to get to the topic. It starts on 13 minutes and 50 seconds.

http://twotruefreaks.com/media/podcasts/TrentusMagnusPunchesReality/mp3/TheSecondEpisodeAnniversaryEpic.mp3

The title of that episode is The Second Episode Anniversary Epic Milestone Retrospective Spectacular Extravaganza. The common consensus among a lot of people (myself included) is that takes some serious balls to do a retrospective in the second episode of your podcast.

Hey colors! How are you going? It's been a while.

It's a pretty good podcast, isn't it?  And you're right that it takes some courage to do a retrospective in the second episode ever, especially for films that people haven't taken too kindly to...until arguably now.

[thecolorsblend]

Hey colors! How are you going?

By train, I'm afraid.

It's been a while.

Indeed it has. Life. You know?

Life...

It's a pretty good podcast, isn't it? 

You know the truth. Don't you?

And you're right that it takes some courage to do a retrospective in the second episode ever, especially for films that people haven't taken too kindly to...until arguably now.

Indeed. This new look the Schumacher movies have been getting the past few years is quite welcome. I think it's perhaps all the demand we've had lately for a "fun" Batman movie that people remember, hey, Schumacher made a couple of fun Batman movies. Love them or hate them, they didn't aspire to be something they weren't.

Nolan's movies are fine in their place... but there's plenty of room for more than just his take.

[riddler]

I just watched this one for the first time in five years (weeks after seeing Batman Begins again). It's definitely not that bad, it's fun and campy and you could tell Schumacher did attempt to bring that comic book to life. That's fine that it's not everyones favourite variation but it is a version of Batman whether people enjoy it or not. While Nolan bored us to tears at points, Schumacher kept the pace rolling, if anything he could have dialed it back. It's too bad the series didn't go on because I felt like this one was the start of a new chapter for batman; he's no longer lonely and tortured over his parents, he has Dick under his wing but he realizes his own mentor Alfred wont be around to guide him.

[The Dark Knight]

I just watched this one for the first time in five years (weeks after seeing Batman Begins again). It's definitely not that bad, it's fun and campy and you could tell Schumacher did attempt to bring that comic book to life.

BF is better than TDK and TDKR. You won't find many people saying that on other forums without being called a troll. But this place is different.

[johnnygobbs]

I just watched this one for the first time in five years (weeks after seeing Batman Begins again). It's definitely not that bad, it's fun and campy and you could tell Schumacher did attempt to bring that comic book to life.

BF is better than TDK and TDKR. You won't find many people saying that on other forums without being called a troll. But this place is different.

TROLL!!!

Only kidding. 

[JokerMeThis]

BF is better than TDK and TDKR. You won't find many people saying that on other forums without being called a troll. But this place is different.

I haven't seen The Dark Knight Rises (I just can't find the interest) but I've always thought Batman Forever is better than Batman Begins and The Dark Knight or at least more fun and enjoyable. I'll even admit I enjoy Batman & Robin better than those two newer movies.

[The Dark Knight]

BF is better than TDK and TDKR. You won't find many people saying that on other forums without being called a troll. But this place is different.

I haven't seen The Dark Knight Rises (I just can't find the interest) but I've always thought Batman Forever is better than Batman Begins and The Dark Knight or at least more fun and enjoyable. I'll even admit I enjoy Batman & Robin better than those two newer movies.

I don't mind BB actually. But agree Schumacher's two movies are infinitely more watchable.

[thecolorsblend]

I don't mind BB actually. But agree Schumacher's two movies are infinitely more watchable.

It is interesting how BB ended up aging the best. Yeah, TDK has that high falutin' "serious cinema" cred (and a swiss cheese story) and TDKRises has an amazing first hour or so (and the rest is mostly "meh").

For most of BB's runtime though, you're into the story, the actors are as invested in the characters as they'll ever be (seriously, it's all downhill from here) and the BB villains were all new to live action.

Really, the only thing that got indisputably better as the trilogy went on if you ask me was the music. Zimmer was less experimental with BB's score. It has melody to it and that's nice. But it doesn't have the same innovative qualities to it as the scores for TDK and TDKRises.

[Dagenspear]

I don't mind BB actually. But agree Schumacher's two movies are infinitely more watchable.

It is interesting how BB ended up aging the best. Yeah, TDK has that high falutin' "serious cinema" cred (and a swiss cheese story) and TDKRises has an amazing first hour or so (and the rest is mostly "meh").

For most of BB's runtime though, you're into the story, the actors are as invested in the characters as they'll ever be (seriously, it's all downhill from here) and the BB villains were all new to live action.

Really, the only thing that got indisputably better as the trilogy went on if you ask me was the music. Zimmer was less experimental with BB's score. It has melody to it and that's nice. But it doesn't have the same innovative qualities to it as the scores for TDK and TDKRises.

I don't get how there's a swiss cheese story.

[thecolorsblend]

"I don't want to kill you!"

"You know, I thought you really were Dent."

In the scene preceding those two lines of dialogue, the Joker opened fire on Harvey's convoy and he was clearly shooting to kill. If he really thought Harvey was Batman... well, obviously he wanted to kill him.

Of course, that all ended up being a ruse anyway. Apparently the Joker intended to get caught. So rather than fake it and allow himself to get caught in a way that might not get him killed, he finds the most intricate, Rube Goldberg way to "infiltrate" the police station.

All this requires the Joker to know Harvey wasn't actually Batman (which invalidates the first part of the interrogation scene with Batman) and for him to somehow predict he'd be kept in the same holding cell as Random Thug #1 into whose chest he'd implanted a bomb. It also requires him to know he'd somehow be able to detonate the bomb in a way that wouldn't take himself out too.

The obvious question to ask is why would he go to all this trouble? You could say he was protecting the mob (his temporary employers) and his real objective was getting to Lao. Fine.

If that's the argument, why even get arrested at all? Why not stitch a phone into Random Thug #1's chest, have him get arrested for something or other and then detonate the bomb remotely? That alone might kill Lao. But if it didn't, the police station would be chaos and smithereens, which would allow a cop on Maroni's payroll (which don't seem to be in short supply) to kill Lao when nobody's looking.

Was the Joker's objective then a face-to-face conversation with Batman? Um, why would he want that? But if I'm supposed to believe the Joker needed some kind of conversation with Batman, there are any number of other ways to get it. Allowing himself to get arrested is probably the stupidest possible way to go about the job considering he can't be sure Gordon will let him be interrogated by Batman.

All around, TDK works great as long as you don't think about it very much.