Batman Beyond

[Silver Nemesis]

I've got mixed feelings about the JLU Epilogue. On the one hand it's a strong episode with a creative narrative structure, solid pacing and an interesting twist. As a standalone Elseworlds or 'what if' story, it's great.

On the other hand I never really liked the idea of the Metal Gear Solid clone angle being canon. It always felt to me like an unnecessary revision that detracted from McGinnis' individuality. Terry had his own identity that was separate from Bruce's and was a strong enough character to stand on his own without the familial connection. He was the new Batman, but he wasn't the new Bruce. He was his own man. But then the Cadmus twist reveals that, to an extent at least, he actually is the new Bruce. I don't think the mythology needed that extra convolution. 

It's also weird that they dropped the bombshell after Batman Beyond had ended, at a time when it would have no meaningful impact on anything besides the comics. If they'd planned it from the start, and had inserted hints in the early episodes, then it might have felt more organic.

I've just realised the prologue from the very first BB episode takes place in the far and distant future of 2019. Old Bruce is in for a rough year.

[The Dark Knight]

I want to comment on this line from the episode.

Terry: How could you do it to me, Bruce?
Bruce Wayne: The only thing that matters is the mission. You know that.
Terry: What about people, Bruce? Dick, Barbara, Tim, Selina. They all loved you, but eventually every single one of them left you. Ever wonder why?
Bruce: Not for an instant. They quit because when it came down to it, they didn't have the heart for the mission. Are you about to quit too? It doesn't really surprise me.

Awesome line. Batman never quits. Never. Even if he can barely stand, and is about to be squashed by a fully roided up Bane.

Batman is an obsession that runs so strongly through his soul. Other people grow up or move into other directions. But not Bruce. He's always the same focused guy fixed in time. There may be a tinge of remorse in the loss of allies along the journey, but the mission always takes precedence. If you bail on the mission, you aren't serious enough (and probably never were). He's doing this until he dies. Even if the body isn't strong, the mind always will be.

As for Bruce being a father by default? Let me unpack some thoughts.

The only way Bruce would become a father is probably something like this, I'd say. I'm inclined to go along with TDK Returns' version of events. Bruce gets to his 50s and still isn't in a serious relationship, and still isn't a father. He's living alone and the ship has bascislly sailed, even though a very slim hope remains on the part of Alfred. Bruce devoted himself to protecting Gotham, and this is his consequence. Which is why I'm not really a fan of Damien Wayne. Superman being a father works better in my view. Robin and other allies become Batman's substitute family, and they eventually move away.

A son created by Bruce's DNA gives his life added purpose and a familial legacy, which is something he didn't intend or probably even deserve. So while I'm not really a Batkid fan, I can sorta like the spirit of Beyond's execution. Bruce is an old man who made mistakes and lived an isolated life (devoted primarily to Gotham and nothing much else). He doesn't have much time left. But this unexpected revelation makes things a little better despite everything that's he's lost.

[thecolorsblend]

Terry: What about people, Bruce? Dick, Barbara, Tim, Selina. They all loved you, but eventually every single one of them left you. Ever wonder why?

I don't want to be a continuity cop here. But while I'm not really aware of a canonical explanation for why the others aren't around, there is a canonical explanation for Tim's absence.

Specifically, Bruce fired him after the flashback events of Return Of The Joker. Now, Tim went through one hell of an ordeal and personally I wouldn't have blamed him if he chose to never be Robin again after what the Joker did to him. But the canonical explanation given by old Barbara is that Bruce forbade Tim from returning.

Epilogue gives the impression that Tim resigned of his own free will and implies that he just wasn't as committed to the cause as Bruce. Even though that can't be true, re: Return Of The Joker.

That's one line in one episode. But Epilogue was an unofficial series finale for Batman Beyond. Before then, Return Of The Joker had been the unofficial series finale. It's kind of strange that the two arguably biggest episodes of the Batman Beyond canon have this glaring piece of discontinuity.

It could be that in truth, Bruce pushes people away. It has nothing to do with them not having the same stamina that he does. It comes down to Bruce being kind of a dictatorial a-hole who is simply poorly suited to ever have a true, lasting friendship.

Anyway.

[The Dark Knight]

It could be that in truth, Bruce pushes people away. It has nothing to do with them not having the same stamina that he does. It comes down to Bruce being kind of a dictatorial a-hole who is simply poorly suited to ever have a true, lasting friendship.

A bit of both, perhaps. His obsession makes him such a dictatorial a-hole.

In B89, Vicki asks why Bruce does what he does. His reply? "Because no-one else can."

Arkham Knight is a good example of his mentality with others, when he refuses help from Robin and locks him away in a cell, continuing the mission alone. He's a control freak who has so much trust in himself to get the job done that he rubs people the wrong way. And when all is said and done, the other person has to say 'I understand', or hit the road.

After a while, something has got to give. Even with a Bat family he still strives to hold onto that independent streak, keeping secrets and carrying burdens. Some people are just meant to be alone.

[The Laughing Fish]

It could be that in truth, Bruce pushes people away. It has nothing to do with them not having the same stamina that he does. It comes down to Bruce being kind of a dictatorial a-hole who is simply poorly suited to ever have a true, lasting friendship.

I honestly find that to be in Bruce's character. You only have to look back at the TNBA episode as a perfect example, where Dick Grayson fell out with Bruce because he was fed up of his mentor's heartlessness and extreme approach in crime-fighting. It appears the older and dedicated Bruce became, the more distant he became and alienated a lot of his allies. Sure, the bitterness may have been put aside sometimes when they needed to work together. But perhaps the peace doesn't last long and, to borrow the title of that particular TNBA episode I'm talking about, "Old Wounds" would come back to haunt them. That's the curse of being Batman, I suppose.

[The Dark Knight]

This isn't about the person saying it, but the message they're spreading. Smith is dead right. A Keaton Batman Beyond film would be a box office smash. I dare say it would excite the fanbase to the point it would resemble Batman (1989) era hype.

If WB is willing to do a new Joker film with Joaquin Phoenix, which is separate from the DCEU continuity, a Keaton Beyond film shouldn't be off limits. It would have to clear some steep hurdles. The studio to even consider the idea, and for Keaton to express interest. Burton would probably be a necessity for him. Time is ticking, and I just can't see all these stars aligning. But if WB is in the business of making money...

https://movieweb.com/batman-beyond-michael-keaton-kevin-smith-idea/

[The Laughing Fish]

Keep dreaming, because Warner Butchers suck. If they rejected an ongoing Burton Batman comic book as Joe Quinones pitched a few years ago, I doubt the company would be willing to make a Batman Beyond movie. Even if Keaton was willing to star.

[thecolorsblend]

When you think about it, there are only so many things you can do with an actor Keaton's age. A TDKR adaptation of some kind is tempting... except Snyder already touched on a lot of core elements of that.

So the next logical thing is Batman Beyond... which could be interesting. It could be cool to do Gotham City as a sort of Blade Runner-style dystopic piss-hole which has only gotten worse in Batman's absence. In fact, there's a lot you can do to tap into that Blade Runner aesthetic.

This could be a cool idea.

[The Dark Knight]

So the next logical thing is Batman Beyond... which could be interesting. It could be cool to do Gotham City as a sort of Blade Runner-style dystopic piss-hole which has only gotten worse in Batman's absence. In fact, there's a lot you can do to tap into that Blade Runner aesthetic.

This could be a cool idea.

Keaton sitting in a batcave observing the computer and walking amongst old trophies would be enough. A lot of Keaton's Batman is about the intensity of his personality. Hints to his past crimefighting career post BR, revealed through dialogue, would also be satisfying. Action scenes wouldn't be his concern.

[Silver Nemesis]

Ten years ago I wanted Adam West to star in Batman Beyond and Michael Keaton to star in The Dark Knight Returns. Keaton's one of those guys who peaked in middle age. I always thought he looked kind of goofy when he was younger and I can see why comic fans were worried when he was cast as Batman.

Compare that to what he looked like when he was in his late forties and early fifties.

Now that's when they should have made The Dark Knight Returns. Around the late nineties or early noughties. It would've been a neat way of both redeeming and concluding the Burton/Schumacher series. Then they still could have rebooted the franchise in 2005.

Fast forward to 2019, and the ship has sailed on Keaton starring in The Dark Knight Returns. Between the two animated films, The Dark Knights Rises and Batman v Superman, I feel like TDKR is played out. But if they'd done it around 2000-2005 then Keaton would've been perfect. Now he's too old (Bruce is meant to be 55 in TDKR, while Keaton will turn 68 this year) and doesn't have anywhere near the right physicality to portray that particular version of Batman. Batman Beyond, however, is a different story.

Warner Bros recently indicated that in the wake of Aquaman's success they were going to focus more on standalone DC films rather than shared universe projects:

"We all feel like we've turned a corner now. We're playing by the DC playbook, which is very different than the Marvel playbook," Emmerich said to the Hollywood Reporter. "We are far less focused on a shared universe. We take it one movie at a time. Each movie is its own equation and own creative entity. If you had to say one thing about us, it's that it always has to be about the directors."

https://comicbook.com/dc/2019/01/19/dc-movies-not-copying-marvel-aquaman-box-office/

In the past they've been averse to having more than one live action version of Batman in the media at any time. Recently though they've been whoring out the Bat-universe to the point of oversaturation. On television they've had Batman characters showing up in Arrow, Gotham and Titans, and there are Batwoman and Alfred TV shows on the horizon. The latest reports point to a new version of Batman appearing in Matt Reeves' upcoming solo movie, plus a different version of Bruce Wayne in Todd Phillips' Joker film. So why not revive one of their most beloved versions of the character for Batman Beyond? I'm finding it very difficult to care about any of DC's TV shows or films at the moment, but a Batman Beyond project would get me hyped.

Marvel has been dominating DC at the box office for quite a while now, yet one advantage DC has over Marvel is their back catalogue of live action TV shows and movies. Marvel had precious few of these prior to 1998, whereas DC had plenty. I don't think Warner Bros and DC have properly capitalised on that legacy to the extent they could have done. Batman Beyond would correct that oversight. Many of us fans feel cheated that we never got to see Keaton play Batman a third time. He's been enjoying a career revival ever since Birdman in 2014 and right now he's the perfect age for a Batman Beyond film.

The mythology of the Burton/Schumacher films would also meet the foundational requirement for the Batman of the Future universe. There's an older Batman who fought crime in his youth but is now retired. The Joker's dead. Batgirl existed in this universe (but if they don't want to bring Silverstone back as Commissioner Gordon they could always recast the part). Bane was drained of his venom and reduced to a physical wreck. Robin was on the cusp of going solo as Nightwing. All the pieces are in place.

The fact Keaton wouldn't have to wear the costume might offer an additional incentive for him to return. The only time he'd really need to wear the suit would be for the prologue sequence based on 'Rebirth'. And for that they could use stand-ins and stunt doubles for all the action (which is what they did most of the time in his old Batman movies anyway) and then digitally de-age him for the close-up shots like they did in Birdman.

For the rest of the film he'd just wear ordinary suits. The movie as a whole would have a neo-Gothic cyberpunk visual style unlike any previous Batman movie. Think Blade Runner meets Akira.

It's a chance to do something different rather than another retread of what's been done before. For the plot, they could base it on the first two episodes of the TV show, Return of the Joker or the 2011 Hush Beyond comic book series. Or maybe mix all three together. Get Burton to produce it, but hire a younger director like Joseph Kosinski to direct. Seriously, this could be the most hyped Batman movie ever. One of the most popular Batman actors of all time returning to reclaim the role after over a quarter of a century. But if Warner Bros is going to do it, they need to get moving. They waited too long to make The Dark Knight Returns with Keaton, but a Batman Beyond movie could still happen. I don't think it will, but it could.