"Fix" the film!

[DocLathropBrown]

Just thought this'd be fun. What ideas would have have to fix the film (if you find it frustratingly close to great as I do), but keep in mind you basically have to do another 'draft,' meaning that you can't do an entirely different film. You have to work within most of the existing framework of the film. And it has to be a sequel to the TDK and BB we did get.

1. I would have named John Blake Jean-Paul Valley instead, simply so we wouldn't have to have the silly 'reveal.' Real fans would know.

2. I would give Bane a better mask, something closer to the comics. I'm fine with the depiction as it is sans mask and funny voice. Not the Bane I'd like to have but with those fixes it would have been good enough for me.

3. I'd have The Bat look more like a traditional Batwing, dammit!

4. Have Bruce be much more severely disabled so it gives some more tension to the story instead of the hurt leg that miraculously heals itself later in the movie without the brace device... Basically, Bruce is in good enough shape to handle regular crooks, but it makes Bane more deadly in that he's better than Batman can be at this point in time, so akin to Knightfall, Batman's at a disadvantage from the get-go.

5. Move up Bane revealing the bomb in the stadium to before Batman gets taken out, so it not only comes out of left field for Batman, but it also puts serious pressure on him to go after Bane before he's prepared, making it more heart-wrenching/tense when Bane defeats him.

6. Don't have Batman fight like an idiot in the first encounter. Throwing those smoke bombs at Bane when he clearly isn't superstitious/cowardly/dumb, for example, is the dumbest thing I've seen Batman do in a movie. Period. He also is fighting completely like an idiot, leaving himself open for hits and also swinging punches wildly with no control.

7. When Bane has the speech outside Blackgate, I would totally pay homage to the opening moment of 'Tec #664 where Bane publically announces Batman's defeat. I'd have him reveal Batman's innocence with Dent first, and then I'd show the citizens watching getting their hopes up that, since they saw Batman back in action, he will save them again... only to have Bane hold up the broken mask and announce that "their savior" is broken and defeated, and nothing can save them now. I get chills just thinking about that!

8. I actually would have Lucius out of town on business so that he can meet up with Alfred outside Gotham once the city goes No Man's Land, and I would have them deduce Bruce's location and resuce him from the prison.

9. Now here's something of a big change, but one that fixes some major problems for me and adds more tension to the finale. I would have Lucius reveal something he'd been woking up for Bruce: a full-body version of the brace that he used on his leg (no prison chiropractory!), so that he can come back to Gotham and defeat Bane, but the catch is that it requires such huge amounts of electricity to run, and it's a prototype, so at most Bruce can only get like 72 hours out of it before it's out of commission. So Bruce has only 72 hours left to ever be Batman again, during which he must defeat Bane and save Gotham one last time. This would fix the stupid back repair, but also be an homage to the full body brace Bruce wears in Kingdom Come. Also, this would give more resonance to his line to Catwoman: "[I haven't given them] everything. Not yet." Because he really wouldn't have.

10. His return, I would have be announced to Gotham with the actual Bat Signal, not an improbably flame bat. It'd be more symbolic and heroic if you ask me.

11. Thus, since he's wheelchair bound for life, it makes perfect sense for him to: a) find a replacement and b) retire from being Batman. If he's still able, he should keep being Batman. That's how I see the character. I'd also probably imply that he'd be there to coach/train his replacement, sort of like the end of the other DKR.

[thecolorsblend]

1. I would have named John Blake Jean-Paul Valley instead, simply so we wouldn't have to have the silly 'reveal.' Real fans would know.

Why not Terry McGinnis?

2. I would give Bane a better mask, something closer to the comics. I'm fine with the depiction as it is sans mask and funny voice. Not the Bane I'd like to have but with those fixes it would have been good enough for me.

Lose the mask, change the name to "Ubu".

3. I'd have The Bat look more like a traditional Batwing, dammit!

Can we change the name to this too? Batwing, Batcopter, Batwtfthatsuckerishuge, whatever you want, but not just "the Bat". Ugh...

5. Move up Bane revealing the bomb in the stadium to before Batman gets taken out, so it not only comes out of left field for Batman, but it also puts serious pressure on him to go after Bane before he's prepared, making it more heart-wrenching/tense when Bane defeats him.

My name is thecolorsblend and I approve this message.

8. I actually would have Lucius out of town on business so that he can meet up with Alfred outside Gotham once the city goes No Man's Land, and I would have them deduce Bruce's location and resuce him from the prison.

This would add some much-needed plausibility to Bruce's return to Gotham.

[DocLathropBrown]

Why not Terry McGinnis?

So a Batman Beyond movie could still be made. If you named him Terry, then the property would be off limits because Warners would be afraid of 'confusing' the general populace. Since TDKR already adapts "Knightfall," it's not like you'll have another chance to see Jean-Paul.

Lose the mask, change the name to "Ubu".

Hell naw. Ubu defeating Batman? I disapprove. Besides, I accept the idea of Bane leading the League because that's a deliberate yank from the storyline "Bane of the Demon." So it counts as genuine comic inspiration to me.

Can we change the name to this too? Batwing, Batcopter, Batwtfthatsuckerishuge, whatever you want, but not just "the Bat". Ugh...

I'm okay with the name, and it'd fit Nolan's asthetic more for it to have a nickname like that. My problem is it looks more like a cockroach than a bat.

This would add some much-needed plausibility to Bruce's return to Gotham.

Indeed! And make both characters more useful than they are in the final film. It would also raise a point about how it was wrong of Bruce to give up on life because others hadn't given up on him.... whoa. I just blew my own mind. It'd be a perfect callback to Begins. When Alfred and Lucius raid the cell, Bruce could say "You still haven't given up on me?" and Alfred could again say "Nevah!"

[thecolorsblend]

So a Batman Beyond movie could still be made. If you named him Terry, then the property would be off limits because Warners would be afraid of 'confusing' the general populace. Since TDKR already adapts "Knightfall," it's not like you'll have another chance to see Jean-Paul.

Wow, aren't you optimistic?

Hell naw. Ubu defeating Batman? I disapprove.

I could buy Ubu defeating a rusty, chewed up, out of shape Batman. You don't have to reach quite as much for the League of Assassins connection and I could see Ubu wanting to fulfill Ra's al-Ghul's destiny. Plus, he's a stumpy bald dude who wears the same kind of fatigues. It looks like the connection is already there; Nolan just wanted a marquee "name" as the villain rather than close the loop on it in a logical way.

Ubu FTW!

[DocLathropBrown]

Wow, aren't you optimistic?

I'm realistic. WB is the company who dictated that none of Batman's villains could appear on Justice League because The Batman was on at the same time, and kids would be confused!

And besides, it's kind of an unwritten rule of Hollywood that you gotta wait a while before reusing ideas. I'll bet that I'm right. We don't see a Batman film that attempts to reuse story elements from "Knightfall" again until we're all old and gray, if at all. Because if you don't wait long enough before reusing an idea, audiences will opt out of seeing it, citing "they just did that!" as a reason.

[Edd Grayson]

Bane should have venom.

Selina should be reffred to as Catwoman (that didn't happen even once in the film dammit).

Drop John Blake.


Not have Batman quit at the end.

[BatmAngelus]

7. When Bane has the speech outside Blackgate, I would totally pay homage to the opening moment of 'Tec #664 where Bane publically announces Batman's defeat. I'd have him reveal Batman's innocence with Dent first, and then I'd show the citizens watching getting their hopes up that, since they saw Batman back in action, he will save them again... only to have Bane hold up the broken mask and announce that "their savior" is broken and defeated, and nothing can save them now. I get chills just thinking about that!

Love this idea, Doc.  To add to that, in my version, Bane doesn't read off from a letter-conveniently-found-in-Gordon's-coat to Gotham.  Instead, he brings out the captured, beaten Gordon and makes HIM confess the truth about Harvey Dent.  This gives some actual weight to that scene, especially with Gordon built up as a hero to the city in the previous scenes.  It's big for Gordon's character since he couldn't bring himself to confess during Harvey Dent Day and now he HAS to do it.  Plus, on a believability scale, Gordon's words would be much more trusted by the people than Bane reading off a piece of paper.

This is when Gotham truly loses hope, as Gordon warned Batman at the end of TDK.  Its previous savior was actually a murderer who lost his sanity, its current hero lied to all of them and is in Bane's custody, and the man who COULD be their remaining hope out of all this- a man they've turned into a pariah after all this time- has been broken by Bane.

Some of my other ideas:

- An easy fix to the oft-complained John Blake scene in Wayne Manor: to have his discovery of Bruce Wayne as Batman make more sense, I'd clarify that Blake only deduced that Bruce Wayne was putting on an act when he saw him at the orphanage, but that's it.

He only figured out that Bruce was Batman through his own detective work- Bruce Wayne returns from the dead after seven years right around the time that Batman first appeared, Bruce Wayne disappears in the middle of a campaign party for Harvey Dent right when Batman appears to stop Joker, Bruce Wayne's reclusiveness since Harvey Dent's death, etc.  This keeps the character smart, but makes his big deduction feel organic to what we've seen in the previous films.

- Catwoman doesn't kill Bane.  Batman breaks Bane in the rematch, done in the spirit of Jean Paul Valley's victory over him in Knightquest or Batman's rematch with the Mutant Leader- "This isn't a mudhole, it's an operation table" in The Dark Knight Returns. 

He leaves the broken Bane to be thrown in prison for life (which, in my opinion, would be a more fitting fate for him than his movie death, since the guy spent almost all of his life behind bars).

- My take on a cleaner version of Bruce's arc for the movie that would've retained its intentions, while sticking closer to the character in both the source material and the characterization of the previous movies:

Bruce would still be Batman at the start of the film ("because he can take it," remember?), fighting crime while evading from the cops.  This may seem like a huge change, going outside Doc's parameters of sticking to the real film's framework, but in my mind, it's not.  The character would still be reclusive as Bruce Wayne like in the movie,  He's barely showing up to his own parties and letting funding for the orphanages go.  Essentially, he's become Batman 24/7- with Rachel and Harvey's deaths from TDK actually pushing him further into stopping everything from carjackings to pickpockets- and this puts him in much of the same conflicts as the movie's first act anyway.  Wayne Enterprises is in trouble, Alfred's upset with his actions, etc. all due to him ignoring his life as Bruce Wayne.

So no limp.  No magic leg brace.

When Batman encounters Bane, then, much like in the Knightfall comic, he's worn out. 

Bane breaking his back shows him that he's not invincible.  He can't keep doing this forever.  It's a reminder of his own mortality and makes him face the question of what he wants to leave behind as his legacy (since legacy's already a theme of the film).  As Bruce Wayne, he'll be remembered as the playboy douche who turned into a recluse and contributed little to society.  As Batman, he's remembered as a murderer.  Is this how the Wayne family legacy ends?  It's here, injured in the Pit and faced with these questions, that Bruce fears that his life has been in vain and it's this fear that pushes him to break out and restore himself both as a Wayne and as Gotham's guardian.

At the end, he still fakes Batman's death, but NOT Bruce Wayne's.  Bruce regains his fortune, his mansion, Alfred, etc. and uses his resources to help rebuild Gotham City.  Since he's not Batman anymore, he no longer needs to put on the playboy act anymore and becomes a full-fledged philanthropist.  Everyone who knows that he was Batman keeps his secret while the rest of Gotham remembers Batman's sacrifice and, inspired by his actions (as well as Bruce Wayne "turning over a new leaf"), do their part in getting the city back together.

Thus, Bruce brings honor back to the Wayne family legacy and, as foreshadowed in Batman Begins, the trilogy ends with us finally getting to see the day that Gotham no longer needs Batman.

[DocLathropBrown]

But... but I like the "Dark Knight Returns" element of him coming back to Batman!   





That would have been a lot more true to the character Batm, but let's face it--that's not what Nolan was going for. Although now that I think about it... Batman retiring at all tends to go against his characteristics. That makes me re-evaluate that aspect of "Dark Knight Returns...."

I love your idea of adding a captive Gordon being forced to spill.... that would just have been way more powerful! And you additions of Blake detectiving Bruce's identity Tim Drake style would have just been friggin' perfect. Or better yet instead of calling him Jean-Paul, he should have been named Tim Drake, so it's even more resemblant of the comics.

I enjoy Catwoman killing Bane for two reasons. One, because he's Nolan's Bane and he deserves it for being lame, and two because it makes perfect sense to just kill him easily. He's done horrendous things and he deserves it, and also there's no time to "tie him up," the city's gonna blow. Kill any crook you have to to save the city, I say! The fact that Batman blows the driver of the truck up with The Bat in the following chase sequence cements that idea. But that doesn't mean I'd keep her killing him, I'd like your idea better. Especially if the earlier half of the movie was the way I envisioned, you'd want to see Batman get through revenge on Bane for earlier.

As it stands, I like Bale flipping his "permission to die" line on him. The only badass Batman moment in the film. Partially spoilt by the fact that he doesn't deserve to deliver it since he lost against Bane so easily in the first act because he fought like an idiot. 

[BatmAngelus]

Haha, my issue with the Dark Knight Returns element in the film is that I didn't think it was needed for the story.  With Bruce quitting at the end anyway, it feels redundant to me and turns the film into The Dark Knight Quits Twice in The Same Movie.  I think there's much more impact to a "retirement" ending if Bruce is still Batman in the beginning (just like how, in my opinion, The Dark Knight Returns' ending works since he goes from being Bruce Wayne 24/7 in the beginning to being Batman 24/7 at the end). 

I felt that all of the major plot points in the first act, regarding the orphanage, Daggett, and the takeover of Wayne Enterprises, stem more from Bruce Wayne being a recluse than from Batman coming out of retirement anyway.  Plus, Batman gets taken out of the picture for a good chunk of the movie anyway by Bane breaking him.  The "Batman's older now" aspect doesn't really get exploited much either.  And the one line they took from the comic- "You're in for a show tonight, son"- doesn't make much sense in context since the cops are supposed to hate Batman for Dent's murder, so the old cop shouldn't be thrilled at all that Batman's returned to help out. 

So, as it stands, Bruce starts off retired and injured. 
Then heals his leg and gets out of retirement.
Then gets injured again and can't be Batman again.
Then gets healed again and goes back to being Batman again. 
Then retires again.  The End.

Or better yet instead of calling him Jean-Paul, he should have been named Tim Drake, so it's even more resemblant of the comics.

That's my feeling, too.  If I had to rename Blake with a comic book character's name, he'd have been Drake throughout.  No obfuscation from the fans.  They'd know going into the movie that he was a reimagining of Robin. 

And if I had to bring the general non-comic-reading audience in on the plan, then, instead of the end reveal of "Robin" being his real name, I'd have "Robin" be some kind of codename he uses in communicating with the other cops (and Batman) during Bane's takeover of Gotham, in case Bane and company are tapping into their communications.  Audience still gets the idea that he's Robin and the name "Robin" still gets to be some kind of disguise that the character uses when fighting crime.

As it stands, I like Bale flipping his "permission to die" line on him. The only badass Batman moment in the film

If I had to pick an alternate line for him to reuse on Bane, it would've been some paraphrase of "I was wondering what would break first.  Your spirit?  Or your body?" (more appropriate for my version of him breaking Bane than for the final film). 

Batman beats Bane's ass.  Then calls back the line before knocking Bane the !@#$ out.  Audience cheers.

[Silver Nemesis]

If I could alter one thing about The Dark Knight Rises, I'd change the spelling of "hiest" to "heist", thereby convincing the audience that the filmmakers weren't totally illiterate.