The next Batman

[The Laughing Fish]

On the ending of the trilogy, I'm OK with Batman having a happy end, but the idea that Blake will become the next Batman is not my thing, Batman was presumed dead, they even built him a statue, he lives on through his legacy, why ruin that?

I was a little worried before but given the source came from a quote taken out of context, I am not bothered. Besides, connecting Nolan's Batman with Man of Steel wouldn't work on a believable scale for two reasons:

1) It was bad enough nobody could put together that Bruce Wayne and Batman were one and the same despite disappearing, reappearing, and vice versa until they both 'died' - yet trying to bring the two personalities back would further destroy any suspension of disbelief.

2) There is an issue about what time should it take place between those three Nolan movies and Man of Steel. For example, if Man of Steel was supposed to take place around the same time that Rises happened, many others and myself included would find it very hard to believe that Superman did nothing when Gotham was under siege. Of course, one option could be that MOS takes place many years later after Rises but again, would anyone be keen for that idea?

[johnnygobbs]

My hunch is that even if these Bale rumours are remotely these films will still be set in a different continuity to 'TDK' series which further begs the question 'why can't "TDK" fanboys move on?'

If however this film is set in the same continuity as 'TDK' I agree with Laughing Fish that it would have to be several years after the events of 'TDKR' but if that is the case surely Batman will be even older than his early 40s.  Bear in mind that besides the flashback scenes to Bruce's childhood, 'TDK' trilogy is supposed to take place within a period of at least fifteen years (Bruce disappears for 7 years traversing the world in 'Batman Begins' and then there is a further gap of eight years between 'TDK' and 'TDKR', which doesn't even take into account of the presumed period between 'Batman Begins' and 'TDK' in which Bruce is actually, you know, being Batman... ).

[Silver Nemesis]

Yet more rumoured names, including Christopher Nolan's alleged choice, all courtesy of CosmicBookNews:

According to the site, who has a dubious track record at best, Christopher Nolan has made his recommendation to Zack Snyder, tipping Wes Bentley (Ghost Rider, The Hunger Games) - who happens to be shooting Nolan's next film Interstellar as we speak - as Christian Bale's successor under the cape and cowl. Meanwhile, they also claim that Luke Evans (Immortals, The Crow) and Ben Affleck (Daredevil, Argo) will be offered screen tests, while screenwriter David S. Goyer is said to be keen on Jake Gyllenhaal (Donnie Darko, Brokeback Mountain).

http://www.flickeringmyth.com/2013/08/wes-bentley-apparently-christopher.html

Even though most of the names that have been suggested are probably not under consideration, this whole thing is still pretty exciting. A lot of people are predicting we'll know who the new Batman is within thirty days. Sixty at most.

[johnnygobbs]

...while screenwriter David S. Goyer is said to be keen on Jake Gyllenhaal (Donnie Darko, Brokeback Mountain).

So Goyer wants Batman to be played by the brother of Batman's love interest...  

I do wish Goyer would just shut the hell up about his hard-on for Gyllenhaal, who has IMHO none of the qualities required for either Batman or Bruce Wayne (and I say that as a fan of Gyllenhaal).  Goyer is such an idiot.  For confirmation, simply watch his awful directorial work on 'Blade Trinity'.

[phantom stranger]

I don't know why you guys are so skeptical. Batman casting-related news is always reliable.

Case in point:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/2612613/Cher-to-play-Catwoman-in-next-Batman-film.html

http://screenrant.com/batman-rumours-eddie-murphy-riddler-shia-labeouf-robin-ross-4673/

[Silver Nemesis]

I don't know why you guys are so skeptical. Batman casting-related news is always reliable.

Case in point:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/2612613/Cher-to-play-Catwoman-in-next-Batman-film.html

http://screenrant.com/batman-rumours-eddie-murphy-riddler-shia-labeouf-robin-ross-4673/

Lol, Shia LaBeouf as Robin?! "Holy no, no, no, no, no, no, no!" That might have been a bit too similar to Andrew Garfield's Spider-Man.

So Goyer wants Batman to be played by the brother of Batman's love interest...   

I do wish Goyer would just shut the hell up about his hard-on for Gyllenhaal, who has IMHO none of the qualities required for either Batman or Bruce Wayne (and I say that as a fan of Gyllenhaal).  Goyer is such an idiot.  For confirmation, simply watch his awful directorial work on 'Blade Trinity'.

They might just be raking up Gyllenhaal's name because he was Goyer's favourite for Batman Begins. He's not a bad actor or anything, but I don't feel he's right for Batman. I'm not quite sure what it is Goyer sees in him that the rest of us don't...

According to the rumours I've heard, Warner Bros is aiming to start filming Batman vs. Superman early next year; commencing the shoot at earliest in February or March, or at latest in April or May. They can't start shooting any later than that without compromising their summer 2015 release date. So actors would need to be available sometime within that four month window. They'd also need to have a clear schedule for at least three months afterwards. Principal photography on Man of Steel was estimated to take 2-3 months, though I think it actually ran longer than that. I'm assuming principal photography on BvS will run for a similar duration, with additional pickup footage being filmed later in the summer. The shoot may be shorter due to Warner Bros fast tracking the film's release, but I'm assuming it will be roughly the same.

If this information is correct (which it may not be) then we can already calculate the likelihood of certain contenders getting/not getting the role.

Christian Bale. Not going to happen. The rumours about the 50 million dollar offer are false. If Chris Nolan one day decided to make a fourth entry in his Dark Knight series, maybe then Bale would return. But he's not playing Batman in this film.

Armie Hammer has said he doesn't want the part. So he's out of the running.

Joseph Gordon-Levitt won't be back for the same reasons as Bale. Different universe, different actor. Warner Bros has confirmed this.

Richard Armitage appears to have a free schedule ahead of him. However he was asked about the Batman role in an interview yesterday, and according to the KoolKiwis Twitter page he said he'd love to play the part but has no idea where the rumour came from. Warner Bros is expected to announce the new Batman within thirty days, and if Armitage hasn't been contacted about the role by now it seems unlikely he ever will be. Then again he may just be playing dumb to fool his fans. But I'm assuming he's telling the truth, in which case he's probably not our guy. It's possible he's in the running, but at this point it seems unlikely.

Josh Brolin has signed on to star in the Sean Penn directed film Crazy for the Storm, which is scheduled to begin filming in Los Angeles in April 2014. If filming on BvS isn't already underway by that point, it will be soon afterwards. So it looks like Brolin's out of the running too.

EDIT: I've just found a source that says Crazy for the Storm will begin shooting in January, not April. If filming on that movie is wrapped in under three months then Brolin would be available for an April/May start. So he might still be in the running after all.

Ben Affleck has said he'll never play a superhero ever again. So there's no way it's going to be him.

Joe Manganiello would seem to be available. I've heard rumours that he's not a serious contender, but we've no way of knowing that for sure at this point. He was certainly in the running for Man of Steel, so he could well be under consideration for this too.

Josh Duhamel is not a serious contender as far as I'm aware. He was named in the Batman-On-Film report that first broke the story about Warner Bros looking for an older Batman. But Jett admitted during a podcast that he made up most of the names on that list, saying that only three of them were genuine contenders (he strongly implied those were Brolin, Hamm and Caviezel). So Duhamel is not in the running.

Wes Bentley doesn't appear to have anything lined up that would clash with the proposed shooting schedule. He'll be 35 by time filming begins, which is younger than the rumours indicated they wanted. But he's a viable option. Particularly if the rumours are true about Chris Nolan recommending him for the part. He definitely seems to be a contender.

Jon Hamm has scheduling conflicts. The final season of Mad Men is expected to start broadcasting around April 2014. They'll have to start work on the show a few months earlier than that date and then continue shooting throughout the rest of the spring and summer. So he won't be available.

Jim Caviezel could be available depending on the precise date they start shooting BvS. He started filming season 3 of Person of Interest in early July of this year, which I think is slightly earlier than they began filming the previous seasons. His nine month shooting schedule should be done by the end of March 2014, or early April at the latest. He's then got a clear schedule for the rest of spring and most of summer. If they have to start filming in February or March, then he's not going to be able to do it. But if they start shooting in the second half of April, or better yet May, then Caviezel will be available. So contrary to what Latino Review claimed, I think he's still in the running.

Karl Urban seems to have a clear schedule too. But I doubt he's seriously being considered for the role, mainly because the character is too similar to Dredd. Strong DVD sales and a recent fan campaign endorsed by 2000 AD have left the possibility open for a sequel to Dredd, and Urban himself voiced interest in making such a sequel back in May. I can't see him starring in two concurrent superhero franchises featuring such similar characters. Urban also said he wouldn't want to appear in the new Star Wars films out of loyalty to the Star Trek franchise. I imagine he'd show similar loyalty to the Dredd franchise. So I'd say he's a possibility, but an unlikely one.

Orlando Bloom appears to be available. He's filming a movie later this year, but besides that he should be free. I hope it isn't him, but it's possible.

Ryan Gosling should also be available. Personally I'd rather see him play Barry Allen. I don't think he's right for Batman at all. But he could be in the running.

I'm not sure about Matthew Goode, Jeffrey Dean Morgan or Gerard Butler. They've all got movies in pre-production but I can't find any precise information on filming dates. A part of me suspects they've only been named in the rumours because they've all worked with Snyder before. But I may be wrong. I certainly wouldn't rule out Butler for the part. I'd say he's the most likely contender out of Snyder's previous collaborators.

Of course it's possible that both the rumours and my research are completely inaccurate. Maybe it'll be someone I've ruled out, or someone completely different altogether. I'm sure there are other actors under consideration that we've yet to hear about, so it could easily be one of them. And if I have ruled out your favourite actor – don't worry, I might be wrong.

Here's my own top pick, out on a date with Vicki Vale (featuring a cameo by Selina Kyle). The fight scene at the end where he pushes the thug up against the wall is classic Batman.

Seriously, if Snyder picks Bloom over this guy I will boycott the movie.

[BatmAngelus]

Great rundown, Silver Nemesis. 

Richard Armitage appears to have a free schedule ahead of him. However he was asked about the Batman role in an interview yesterday, and according to the KoolKiwis Twitter page he said he'd love to play the part but has no idea where the rumour came from. Warner Bros is expected to announce the new Batman within thirty days, and if Armitage hasn't been contacted about the role by now it seems unlikely he ever will be. Then again he may just be playing dumb to fool his fans. But I'm assuming he's telling the truth, in which case he's probably not our guy. It's possible he's in the running, but at this point it seems unlikely.

I agree.  I feel that he would've pulled a Mark Strong and given a "I can't talk about that/Stay tuned" type of response.

It's possible, as I said earlier, that Armitage (along with a bunch of these actors) was just on a list of names that Snyder and WB put together in a meeting of who they could consider.

Here's my own top pick, out on a date with Vicki Vale (featuring a cameo by Selina Kyle). The fight scene at the end where he pushes the thug up against the wall is classic Batman.

Haha, I knew exactly what this clip would be before I hit "Play," which shows how much of Person of Interest I've seen.

Also, don't forget Alfred talking into his ear throughout the date 

[johnnygobbs]

I think Jim Caviezel would have made a perfect-Superman but I don't think the roles are interchangeable in terms of casting and Caviezel simply strikes me as too thoughtful and soft-spoken for Bruce Wayne, which Bale came the closest out of all the modern 'Batman'-actors to nailing IMHO.  I can see Caviezel as a brooding, gruff, 'older' Batman, and a mentor to Superman, but I don't really see him as the cocky, dashing, apparently shallow son-of-privilege (which I realise is all an act, but it should nevertheless be a convincing act for the part to work).  For that I still  hope that James Brolin who played a variation on those types of roles in 'Wall Street: Money Never Sleeps' might  get the role even though the apparently unavailable Jon Hamm would be my ideal pick.

[Silver Nemesis]

It's possible, as I said earlier, that Armitage (along with a bunch of these actors) was just on a list of names that Snyder and WB put together in a meeting of who they could consider.

That's probably true. For all we know, none of these guys might be under consideration.

Haha, I knew exactly what this clip would be before I hit "Play," which shows how much of Person of Interest I've seen.

Also, don't forget Alfred talking into his ear throughout the date   

This, combined with the fact you like the William Hartnell era of Dr Who, shows you have excellent taste, my friend.

Reese = Bruce Wayne
Finch = Alfred/Lucius Fox
Carter = Gordon
Fusco = Bullock
Bear = Ace the Bathound

I don't want people to think I'm suggesting Caviezel should just play the same character in BvS. I'm not. The two characters are actually very different. But Person of Interest does have undeniable parallels with Batman, and it shows that Caviezel can bring the required level of intensity and physicality to the role, just like Equilibrium (2002) demonstrated for Bale.

Intensity is a key factor for me. Keaton could convey a potent sense of menace with just his eyes. Caviezel is one of the few actors who can match that.

I think Jim Caviezel would have made a perfect-Superman but I don't think the roles are interchangeable in terms of casting and Caviezel simply strikes me as too thoughtful and soft-spoken for Bruce Wayne, which Bale came the closest out of all the modern 'Batman'-actors to nailing IMHO.  I can see Caviezel as a brooding, gruff, 'older' Batman, and a mentor to Superman, but I don't really see him as the cocky, dashing, apparently shallow son-of-privilege (which I realise is all an act, but it should nevertheless be a convincing act for the part to work).  For that I still  hope that James Brolin who played a variation on those types of roles in 'Wall Street: Money Never Sleeps' might  get the role even though the apparently unavailable Jon Hamm would be my ideal pick.

The more I think about Brolin in the role, the less I want him to get it. Don't get me wrong, he's a good actor. But physically he's far from perfect for the part. And I think he's been overexposed in recent years to the extent that we'd end up seeing the actor rather than the character. For example, whenever I watch Batman and Robin I don't see the character Batman, I see George Clooney playing Batman. I think I'd have a similar reaction seeing Brolin in the batsuit. I know everyone keeps posting that manip of him in the costume. But what impresses me about that manip is the suit itself, not the 60% of Brolin's face that's visible on top of it. So while I don't think Brolin is the worst choice for the role, I'd still be disappointed if he got it.

He also might not want the part. His previous foray into DC territory landed him some of the worst notices of his career. In fact it's his third lowest rated movie on Rotten Tomatoes. And he's already got another comic book movie coming up with Sin City: A Dame to Kill For (2014). With his career going so well at the moment, would he really want to risk it by playing Batman in the sequel to a critically maligned movie like Man of Steel? Especially when doing so would involve working with the woman he's currently in the process of divorcing? If he does do it, I reckon it'll be purely as a cash grab. But scheduling conflicts with Crazy for the Storm might eliminate him from the running anyway.

As far as Hamm goes, he's certainly a good actor, but I'm not sure he's right for Batman. I've always thought of him as more of a comedic actor than anything else. Granted, people said the same thing about Keaton back in 1988. But Keaton worked because he had an air of darkness and intensity about him. I'm not sure Hamm does. I can see him playing a smarmy Bruce Wayne, but I'm not sure I can see him fighting ninjas on rooftops. And I suspect he wouldn't want to anyway. He once said:

"I've been offered my share of superhero movies, but I think I've aged out of that [...] I have mad, crazy respect for the people that can pull it off because it's something that can be done poorly so easily. But, you know, it's a big commitment and it's probably something that, unless it's the right thing, it's probably not so much my jam."

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/GraphicCity/news/?a=55825

Unless he quits the final season of Mad Men, which is highly unlikely, then he's not going to be available anyway. Truth be told, I'd prefer Hamm over Brolin. But it doesn't sound like he's in the running anymore, or like he'd want the part even if he was.

Personally I think he looks more like the Alex Ross Superman than any incarnation of Batman from the comics.

Moving onto Caviezel, he definitely has the acting ability. He's starred in critically acclaimed movies like The Thin Red Line (1998 – 7 Academy Award nominations) and The Passion of the Christ (2004 – 3 Academy Award nominations), and he's worked with top directors like Ang Lee, Gus Van Sant, Ridley Scott, Mel Gibson and Terrence Malick. Unfortunately he's been blacklisted for the past ten years and has been badly underutilised in the industry. But that's all the more reason why he should get a second break now. He's got enough good roles on his filmography to prove his credibility as a serious actor, but he's not so well known that his pre-established screen persona (not that he has one) would clash with the character he's playing.

Most of the actors who've been suggested are already attached to big upcoming movies: The Hobbit 2 & 3 for Armitage, Star Trek 3 and Dredd 2 for Urban, Interstellar for Bentley, Oldboy and Sin City 2 for Brolin, etc. But Caviezel's got nothing like that on the horizon; just his TV show Person of Interest. Now don't misunderstand me, Person of Interest is a great show. It's getting consistently good reviews and averaging over 10 million viewers each week. But Caviezel deserves more good movie roles, and at present he's perfectly aligned career-wise to step up and tackle a big film. And that film should be Batman vs. Superman.

I know he was a fan favourite to play Superman a few years ago, but he was never really a good match for the Superman in the comics. He's an inch too short and about twenty pounds too light. He is, however, a perfect match for Bruce Wayne. He's 6'2, which is the same height as the Bruce Wayne in the comics. He mentioned in an interview last year that he was 210lbs, which is the exact same weight as the Bruce Wayne in the comics. He has black hair and blue eyes, again, just like the comic character. And personally I think his facial characteristics are identical to how Neal Adams drew Bruce Wayne during the Bronze Age: high cheekbones, deeply set blue eyes, slightly arched eyebrows, strong chiselled chin, prominent lower lip, parenthesis lines at the corner of his mouth.

This manip of Caviezel wearing the cowl helps further demonstrate the likeness.

Looks wise, he's also a logical successor to Bale. The proportions and overall shape of the two actors' faces are close enough that Caviezel could pass for an older version of the Bale Batman, and that might make it easier for the audience to accept a different actor in the role so soon after Bale's last performance.

If you want evidence that he can carry off the playboy persona, look no further than The Count of Monte Cristo (2002). In this film (which co-starred a young Henry Cavill) Caviezel's character embarks on a violent quest for revenge and adopts the public persona of a wealthy 19th century playboy in order to exact it.

Speaking of the Count of Monte Cristo, watch this scene from the end of the movie. His screen presence here has an understated air of menace that is perfect for Batman. It reminds me of Keaton's performance in the cathedral at the end of the 89 film.

Also note his voice. He has a quiet, husky voice reminiscent of Clint Eastwood's when he was younger. You're right when you say he's softly spoken, but that's why his voice is so perfect. It's already low and whispery enough that he won't have to strain it the way Bale did. After three movies of Batman growling like a laryngitic pro-wrestler, I think it's time we had a more Keatonesque whispery Batman. And it's exactly how he's described as sounding in many of the comics.

Then there's the issue of his physical build. At the moment he's maintaining a lean physique for Person of Interest. However if you check out his physique in Outlander (2008) you can see he's capable of gaining muscle when the role requires it. His muscles in that film were bigger than Keaton's, Kilmer's or Clooney's ever were, and probably around the same size as Bale's in The Dark Knight (2008).

He's got a good six months or more to bulk up for the Batman role. I've always thought Bale had an ectomorphic body type, with narrow shoulders and chest, but managed to compensate for it by gaining some impressive muscle mass for the Batman films. By contrast Caviezel has a much larger frame, with naturally broad chest and shoulders.

If he were to pile some muscle on top of that frame he'd look absolutely huge. In the costume, he'd look like the Arkham City Batman.

On the subject of physical suitability, there's one other thing we should take into account, and that's Caviezel's athletic background. Before becoming an actor he'd played college basketball and was on course for a career in the NBA before an injury stopped him. He's spoken of his training regimen in several interviews, mentioning that he'd also studied martial arts and boxing for five years when he was younger. And in recent years he's undergone additional combat training with Special Forces experts for Person of Interest. I don't know exactly how many forms he's studied, but rumour has it he's trained in at least half a dozen different fighting styles. He'd be the first Batman actor to have legitimate martial arts training, as opposed to just training for a few months before making the movie like Bale did.

Admittedly this is something of a moot point, since stuntmen can always be used to compensate for an actor's physical limitations. But wouldn't it be nice to have a Batman actor with an authentic athletic background and real martial arts skills? A lot of people criticised Bale's movements in The Dark Knight trilogy for being too slow and clumsy. Caviezel can move with far greater speed and precision than Bale, and that's something I'd like to see in the next Batman film.

We've had seven movies now starring actors who don't match the Bruce Wayne in the comics. Isn't it about time we had an actor who did? Whenever they pick a Superman actor they evaluate the candidates according to their physical suitability. They have to be a certain height, look a certain way, have a certain tone of voice. I think we should start choosing Batman actors using a similar set of criteria. And according to the physical criteria of being accurate to the comics, Caviezel is by far and away the most suitable choice. If they were going for a younger actor then I could understand not casting him. But if they really are looking for an actor in their forties then it should be him and no one else.

But would he want to play the part? I think so. He's come close to playing superheroes on two previous occasions. First of all he was cast as Scott Summers/Cylcops in the first X-Men movie, but had to drop out due to scheduling conflicts with Frequency (2000). Then he was a fan favourite for Superman in the 2006 film and publicly stated he'd love to play the part:

"It appeals to me a great deal [...] I like to play iconic characters, and I see the role of Superman as a big responsibility. Playing Superman would be a great challenge."

Considering this is his third – and likely last – opportunity to play such a character, I think he'd jump at the chance.

The one big obstacle is the possible scheduling conflict with Person of Interest. I've now heard that the shooting schedule for PoI may only be 8 months, in which case he'd be available from late February/early March. But that may not be true. If there is an overlap, I'm wondering if the shooting schedule for the TV show couldn't be reorganised so Caviezel could film his scenes for the last couple of episodes earlier than the rest of the cast, thereby freeing him up for a February start on BvS. Jonathan Nolan is executive producer on PoI, and Chris Nolan is executive producer on BvS. Surely they could work something out?

But in all honesty, I don't think he's going to get the role anyway. If anyone could be for the Batman character what Christopher Reeve was for Superman, I firmly believe Caviezel's the guy. But then I'm talking from the perspective of a comic fan who wants to see the character brought to life from the printed page. The studio is thinking more in terms of star power and marketability, and in those terms someone like Brolin or Brad Pitt would certainly bring in more tickets. And as long as that mentality prevails, I doubt I'll ever get to see "my Batman" in live action. But there is a slim chance it might happen this time, and until Caviezel's definitely ruled out of the running I'm going to continue rooting for him. 

Of course everything I'm saying is just my opinion. I could be wrong. But on this one occasion I don't think I am. Anyway, sorry for yet another overlong post. I considered posting some of this stuff in its own thread, but I decided it would be tidier to keep the casting discussion in one thread.

[johnnygobbs]

Good post Silver Nemesis, but none of that seems to address the problem I have with Caviezel as Batman as opposed to Superman, which is as physically well suited as he is for the latter part he doesn't seem to exude the arrogant and to-the-manor-born self-assuredness and slight cockiness I associate with Bruce Wayne and which of all the actors who have so far played him I feel only Christian Bale really caught.  All the stills you posted of Caviezel solidifies his persona as a sensitive brooder.  Like Keaton's permanently haunted Bruce I can certainly see him as a man still reeling from the childhood trauma of his parents' death.  What I can't see is the dashing, charismatic playboy and 'richest man in Gotham' which sets Bruce apart from Superman/Clark (especially Cavill's sensitive drifter version of Clark).  I would still like to see the 'B:TAS' version of Bruce Wayne brought to life and of all the actions so far linked with the part Jon Hamm, despite or perhaps partly because of his occasional comedic cheesiness, comes closest.