Robin

[The Dark Knight]

You still see Batman comics featuring Robin, but I noticed it became common to see people preferring to see Batman without any sidekicks whenever I go online.

Generally speaking, I prefer Batman operating alone. But in recent years my tone has changed. I think the Arkham games were a key factor, along with the 66 TV show, BTAS and now the BvS universe. I like the idea that Batman develops a family around him. That his world grows over the years, but he still holds onto his individuality. I think it makes his world feel more complete and layered. Affleck staring at the battle damaged Robin costume is an example.

[The Laughing Fish]

Generally speaking, I prefer Batman operating alone. But in recent years my tone has changed. I think the Arkham games were a key factor, along with the 66 TV show, BTAS and now the BvS universe. I like the idea that Batman develops a family around him. That his world grows over the years, but he still holds onto his individuality. I think it makes his world feel more complete and layered. Affleck staring at the battle damaged Robin costume is an example.

I think this passage from the blog entry I linked in my previous post sums this up:

Then there's the "old chum" thing--the idea that Batman, a notoriously antisocial loner would not have any want or need for a sidekick. Admittedly, seeing the dark and brooding Batman looking all awesome and depressed is severely diminished when you see ol' green underwear standing beside him trying to look important. Over the years, writers like Chuck Dixon and Marv Wolfman have tried to make excuses for the costume, saying that it exudes total confidence in his skills, it's a loving homage to his parents, or that it's purposeful so villains wouldn't take him seriously and become overconfident allowing Robin to seriously f*** them up. It's a nice try but even I don't buy that one. Thankfully, by the time Tim Drake (the third Robin) took up the mantle it actually resembled a real costume. The purpose of Robin is to keep Batman in check, from getting too dark and keep from crossing the line, and Robin always gave Batman a reason to try to stay sane: he was the example now, the father.

The mention of Tim Drake and what he was trying to accomplish in A Lonely Place of Dying explains why Robin is an important part of the Batman mythos. No matter how many actors like Christian Bale might have a distaste for the character.

[riddler]

Part of it may be that many of the iconic batman stories in any media had no Robin- year one, the Burton and Nolan films, Mask of the phantasm, the arkham games for the most part. All Star Batman and the Schumacher films did have Robin but they are not well received. So likely what the character requires is a good story to be in.

[Slash Man]

When looking at Robin through a cynical lens, was making a child into a masked crime fighter the best thing for Dick? At face value, the original comics show Dick being able to maintain a normal and happy life after living with Bruce, but Frank Miller really exposes everything that could have gone wrong with Batman taking up a sidekick - and A Death in the Family shows the ultimate risk that such a position entails.

I still believe that teaming up with Batman was the best thing for Dick, as he was one of the few people whom could understand his loss. But Batman also gave Dick the opportunity for something he could never have - justice. Immediately brought Dick into the loop, giving him the harsh reality of how ineffective the police were against organized crime, but also giving him an outlet for his struggles by fighting crime directly. Dick was already an accomplished acrobat and extremely athletic; another thing that set him and young Bruce apart. While it took years for Bruce to physically and mentally prepare himself to become the Batman, Dick was already capable. Bruce saw an opportunity to create a force that could perhaps one day eclipse Batman.

[The Laughing Fish]

When looking at Robin through a cynical lens, was making a child into a masked crime fighter the best thing for Dick? At face value, the original comics show Dick being able to maintain a normal and happy life after living with Bruce, but Frank Miller really exposes everything that could have gone wrong with Batman taking up a sidekick - and A Death in the Family shows the ultimate risk that such a position entails.

I know you're making a point that focuses on Dick Grayson, but A Death in the Family concerns Jason Todd's demise.

But what separates Dick and Tim Drake apart from Jason Todd was they were still way more mature than Jason (and even Bruce), which helped them live a good life. Jason Todd was a troubled kid who simply wasn't cut out emotionally to carry this sort of duty. After a promising start, it took a toll on him to the point he made mistakes and it cost him his life.

Going back to my earlier post in this thread about the Post-Crisis retcons involving Jason:

In issue #408, Dick was unhappy with Bruce for banning the Robin identity, but he seemed to accept the decision. But in Batman #416 - White Gold & Truth, the scene was rewritten where Dick was heartbroken as Batman walked away without even saying a final goodbye, and Dick deciding to leave Wayne Manor to fend for himself. That issue had this great confrontation between Nightwing and Batman, where Bruce was questioned why he suddenly adopted Jason as the new Robin. Dick not only dared Bruce to unmask and explain himself, but he even called out on Bruce's bullsh*t when he tried to use Jason's poor background as an excuse to save him. So Bruce, never used to having to justify himself honestly to one of his (former) sidekicks before, angrily admitted that he missed having Dick around...before kicking him out. Very strange.

Although Bruce might've been clutching at straws, he might've had a point when he adopted Jason as his ward and permitted him to become the next Robin. When Bruce first met Jason, the kid was abandoned in Crime Alley (if I remember right), and was left to look after himself with his broken all to himself, with no parents in sight. Jason was already living a bleak life and might've become a petty crook who ends up in jail or dead. With Batman, he was given a chance to live a better (albeit still dangerous) life where he could still enjoy privileges and have the opportunity to become a better person. He meant well, but his inability to cope with the injustice that came with being a crimefighter affected him emotionally, and as time passed by, he didn't have the maturity that Dick and Tim had to survive as Robin. But as gruesome as his death was in A Death in the Family, at least he died knowing he was capable of doing good in the world instead of running alone as a thief.

[thecolorsblend]

I still believe that teaming up with Batman was the best thing for Dick, as he was one of the few people whom could understand his loss. But Batman also gave Dick the opportunity for something he could never have - justice. Immediately brought Dick into the loop, giving him the harsh reality of how ineffective the police were against organized crime, but also giving him an outlet for his struggles by fighting crime directly. Dick was already an accomplished acrobat and extremely athletic; another thing that set him and young Bruce apart. While it took years for Bruce to physically and mentally prepare himself to become the Batman, Dick was already capable. Bruce saw an opportunity to create a force that could perhaps one day eclipse Batman.

To me, recruiting Dick to become Robin marks the moment when Batman stops using brute force to achieve his ends and starts playing 3D chess.

Left to his own devices, Dick's is a criminal's origin story. Parents died, forced to live either in poverty or foster care, no love or support, inevitably ends up in drugs or some other crime. Batman would have to beat the snot out of Dick in ten years if he didn't recruit him into his mission.

Recruiting him, as you say, gives Dick justice where Bruce himself never had it. That shifts Dick's trajectory from vengeance (which, I maintain, is what motivates Batman) to more specifically a fondness for justice (which, I maintain, is an unintentional byproduct of Batman's mission).

Plus, it's a new avenue of attack against criminals.

Recruiting Dick shows Batman refining his methods and using more than just his fists to get the job done. It's a major part of his character growth. Without it, he seems to me to be less effectual.

I can understand wanting to control or even limit Robin's usage. Let's face it, taking a small child into battle is straight up insane. But eliminating Robin deprives Batman of incredibly powerful character growth. He is indispensable.

[Slash Man]

Agreed. While lazy writers like to turn Robin into a liability, having a child actually gives Batman a lot more options for investigative purposes. Under cover as Dick, he's able to able to both allow for Batman to be somewhere completely different, and better disguise himself in areas that would call for a kid and not an adult man.

[The Dark Knight]

And you know what I really like about Robin and the Bat family? They all eventually go their own seperate ways and leave Batman to his own devices, or at least have reduced contact with him. Batman more or less ends the way he started. That's why I love Batman Beyond. After all these glorious adventures and opening his heart to being more of a team player, he's doing nothing but ageing inside an empty manor.

Sad but fitting for the character I think.

[thecolorsblend]

And you know what I really like about Robin and the Bat family? They all eventually go their own seperate ways and leave Batman to his own devices, or at least have reduced contact with him. Batman more or less ends the way he started. That's why I love Batman Beyond. After all these glorious adventures and opening his heart to being more of a team player, he's doing nothing but ageing inside an empty manor.

Sad but fitting for the character I think.

Agreed... somewhat. It speaks to the different motivations they all had in joining the team in the first place. To me, Babs is one of those ridiculously intelligent people who will always be overqualified for any job she has. Of them all, she's probably the closest to being a peer for Batman.

But she's not consumed with vengeance. She's not driven by obsession. She would ultimately see the futility of Batman's quest and go her own way.

Dick is also not driven by anger and vengeance. He might've been under other circumstances... but Bruce headed that off at the pass. Dick would eventually want more from life than Bruce has to offer. Indeed, the canon shows that much.

We'll never know what Jason might've been because the Joker killed him and he never came back from the grave. I do believe it's reasonable to assume, though, that he would've quit on his own sooner or later. Not assumed a different superhero name. I mean just freaking quit. He never had the drive to go the distance.

Tim Drake has the time, talent and patience to become Batman's replacement. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but the time will eventually come when Tim replaces Bruce. And when it comes to that, he'll be a very different Batman. Bruce is already careful and tactical in his methods. But if Bruce is cautious, Tim as Batman might be downright passive. I could see Tim as Batman truly being able to live up to Batman's rep as an urban legend because he wouldn't risk being seen until it was absolutely necessary. Tim's got the passion and the drive to be Batman and the skills to pull it off.

He's the one who wouldn't leave Bruce... which is good because Bruce has no offspring to whom he can pass on the mantle.