Robin

[Edd Grayson]

Batman and Tim Drake.

[The Laughing Fish]

Do you know which comic that came from Max? I haven't read it, and it's definitely not from the 80s.

I somehow forgot to compare that front cover to the iconic image of Batman holding Jason's dead body in his arms in A Death of the Family.



Way too much of a coincidence for my liking.

Another Robin I like to talk about is Batman's son, Damian Wayne. I got more of an understanding about him after recently watching Son of Batman and Batman vs Robin - one of which was based on the Court of Owls storyline.

I must admit that I'm not a fan of Damian. I understand what the writers were going for: a boy who was trained at a very young age to become a deadly assassin and heir to Ra's al Ghul, who is so disciplined beyond his age that he never got to be a kid. That is tragic by itself. But I just can't stand him. He's not really a brat, but I just find his arguing with his father to be petty. There were a lot of times in both of those animated films where I wondered why would Bruce even bring Damian on board as Robin, particularly arguing constantly on the subject of killing. Damian slowly adopts his father's moral code, but I can't help but think it feels contrived. It's strange.

[Edd Grayson]

That was from The New 52, Laughing Fish, the one I posted... but I'm still not as knowledgeable about the different incarnations as you. 

I never liked the idea of Damian Wayne myself.

[Slash Man]

It felt appropriate that he was absent from Burton and Nolan's films. Depicted was Batman's earlier solo career and beginnings as a crimefighter, respectively. Technically, you could have fit him into the second films from a development standpoint (Batman Returns and The Dark Knight), though those films were already jam-packed with other characters that it just seems improbable. Above all, it's important to introduce Batman as a lone vigilante before getting into Robin. I would have liked to see a Carrie Kelley-esque Robin in The Dark Knight Rises, but in this uber-realistic world, the best we got was John Blake.

I'm disappointed that filmmakers are too embarrassed to give us a classic Robin. I feel like when you draw the line for what ridiculous Batman conventions you want to include and not, you take it too seriously. I want to see the 8-year old acrobat in pixie boots swinging across building tops that changed the face of comics.

[The Laughing Fish]

I'm disappointed that filmmakers are too embarrassed to give us a classic Robin. I feel like when you draw the line for what ridiculous Batman conventions you want to include and not, you take it too seriously. I want to see the 8-year old acrobat in pixie boots swinging across building tops that changed the face of comics.

I think WB would hesitate to bring a young boy at that age into a vigilante story because it would provoke controversy. But I tell you what, after a teenage Spider-Man was brought in by Tony Stark to fight Captain America, I have relaxed my attitude towards bringing a fifteen year old Robinon screen. Civil War a pretty dark film but Spider-Man was praised for bringing in levity, so I don't see why the same can't be accomplished for Robin.

A few months ago, I got the chance to read the storyline A Lonely Place of Dying. I always knew Tim Drake was smart enough to tracks down Dick Grayson and Batman and confesses he knows their true identities, but I didn't know that he witnessed Dick's parents dying at Haly's Circus, and instantly recognised Dick's acrobats as soon as he became Robin. Already Tim shows the intelligence in not only learning who Batman and Robin are, but understood that Batman would always need a sidekick to keep him in check and not to fall in that lonely abyss. And he was right because Bruce was becoming unfocused and reckless ever since Jason Todd died, and his stubbornness in trying to take care of things by himself almost got him killed by Two-Face.

Tragedy has a strange way of transforming into a special bond between Batman and Robin, doesn't it?

[The Dark Knight]

The next Robin we see will likely be Jason Todd as Red Hood. Bring it on.

[riddler]

I'm disappointed that filmmakers are too embarrassed to give us a classic Robin. I feel like when you draw the line for what ridiculous Batman conventions you want to include and not, you take it too seriously. I want to see the 8-year old acrobat in pixie boots swinging across building tops that changed the face of comics.

I think WB would hesitate to bring a young boy at that age into a vigilante story because it would provoke controversy. But I tell you what, after a teenage Spider-Man was brought in by Tony Stark to fight Captain America, I have relaxed my attitude towards bringing a fifteen year old Robinon screen. Civil War a pretty dark film but Spider-Man was praised for bringing in levity, so I don't see why the same can't be accomplished for Robin.

I think that's the hardest part; how to incorporate a 12 year old fighting crime on the big screen. I doubt Nolan would have used a teenage robin. Note that in the trilogy, the only dialogue from children are young Bruce in begins and Gordons son in TDK. I can't imagine Nolan using a teenage boy.  It is weird how the movies redefined things; prior to 1989 it was rare to have Batman stories without Robin. Year one had Bats work alone but it was an adjustment to see solo Batman.

[The Laughing Fish]

It is weird how the movies redefined things; prior to 1989 it was rare to have Batman stories without Robin. Year one had Bats work alone but it was an adjustment to see solo Batman.

You still see Batman comics featuring Robin, but I noticed it became common to see people preferring to see Batman without any sidekicks whenever I go online. These people tend to support their argument by judging how Schumacher portrayed Robin in BF and B&R, and worry any future Batman movie would have its tone compromised to that level of "camp" again. Which I find to be such an absurd argument. Robin appearing in live action doesn't make the story automatically "campy".

As a matter of fact, Schumacher can rightfully or wrongfully be criticised for the tone and so on, but I commend him for his ideas in introducing Robin in the films; Bruce making peace with his own demons and steering Dick into the right path to fight for justice, and the two regain a bond that becomes more of a family by the end of B&R. It's a positive arc.

***EDIT*** This blog entry writes up a defense for Robin and sums up the narrow-minded attitude him by so-called fans over the years. But be warned, it contains some swearing and cheap jokes, so it's a little NSFW.

http://rant-review34t.blogspot.com/2010/12/in-defense-of-robin.html

[Silver Nemesis]

I think WB would hesitate to bring a young boy at that age into a vigilante story because it would provoke controversy. It is weird how the movies redefined things; prior to 1989 it was rare to have Batman stories without Robin. Year one had Bats work alone but it was an adjustment to see solo Batman.

True. From Batman Vol 1 #1 (spring 1940) until Batman Vol 1 #217 (December 1969), it was always Batman & Robin in the comics. There was the odd solo story, but most of the time they appeared as a team. And they also appeared together in pretty much every adaptation up until Batman 89.

I think I'm right in saying that Burton's movie was the first time Batman was depicted without Robin in live action. It's understandable why some people would be confused by the Boy Wonder's absence. Comic fans were accustomed to seeing Batman work alone, but it was the 1989 film that brought the idea to the general public. And even then, many of them were clamouring for Robin to appear in the sequel.

[Slash Man]

Not that it needed it; Robin was just iconic and people weren't used to the idea of having Batman but not Robin. But at the same time, no one complained.

I think that's the hardest part; how to incorporate a 12 year old fighting crime on the big screen. I doubt Nolan would have used a teenage robin. Note that in the trilogy, the only dialogue from children are young Bruce in begins and Gordons son in TDK. I can't imagine Nolan using a teenage boy.  It is weird how the movies redefined things; prior to 1989 it was rare to have Batman stories without Robin. Year one had Bats work alone but it was an adjustment to see solo Batman.

True, but its in the roots of the character that Robin is that young (I've heard Golden Age Robin is either 8 or 12). It was truly bizarre because this was a time when Batman was still killing people without a second thought. Robin's first goal was to give Batman someone to talk to. The effect of lightening up the tone was a consequence that came afterwards.

It seems that fairly recently, artists kept trying to make Robin cool, sometimes coming across as trying too hard.  Not sure when Robin became noticeably older; whether it started in the comics, or with Burt Ward being older than the character was written. But after the Teen Titans and whatnot, Robin got a redesign in the 90s, and was shifted into being more of a partner than a sidekick. Chris O'Donnell's Robin seemed to be a culmination of this. But yeah, it became much harder to make Robin younger and more of a sidekick to Batman after this.

Nolan had the opening for a Robin character in DKR. With its parallels to The Dark Knight Returns, a younger partner to pass the torch to was necessary. Could a classic Robin have fit into it? Probably not. But I do believe there could have been A Robin.

Finally, I think the biggest issue with Robin would be child actors. It's very rare to see someone that young give a good, convincing performance. Let alone getting the stunts to look convincing. Douglas Croft was as close as they could come.