The Ice Princess and Her Tragic Fate

[johnnygobbs]

She does remind me of Lady Diana because they were both blonde and died tragic deaths, but the similarities stop there.

I hope I don't seem like I'm insulting Princess Diana by making such a comparison.  Clearly the real-life princess was a much more dignified and intelligent woman that the Ice Princess, but they were both much-adored and elegantly beautiful 'celebrities'.  The Ice Princess was adored by Gotham City and Princess Diana was adored by the entire real world but it's only the scale that's different, and Gotham is like a microcosm of the real world.

[Edd Grayson]

You mean the real world is full of superficial people with only a few smarter people who will either use their minds for good or evil? yes, kind of. 

[johnnygobbs]

You mean the real world is full of superficial people with only a few smarter people who will either use their minds for good or evil? yes, kind of. 

Yes, the real world is controlled by a handful of mainly male plutocrats who represent either good or evil whilst the rest of us are for the most part mindless or hapless sheep with little to no power.

[Edd Grayson]

And the ones that people love and view as role models are either assassinated or driven to commit suicide by natural means or through drugs. See John Lennon, Elvis Presley, Michael Jackson, Martin Luther King, Jr, JFK and RFK, Princess Diana and so on...

[thecolorsblend]

I hope I don't seem like I'm insulting Princess Diana by making such a comparison.  Clearly the real-life princess was a much more dignified and intelligent woman that the Ice Princess, but they were both much-adored and elegantly beautiful 'celebrities'.  The Ice Princess was adored by Gotham City and Princess Diana was adored by the entire real world but it's only the scale that's different, and Gotham is like a microcosm of the real world.

Really? I always got the idea the Ice Princess was a washed up, talentless nobody who was convinced she was a much bigger star than she actually was.

[johnnygobbs]

I hope I don't seem like I'm insulting Princess Diana by making such a comparison.  Clearly the real-life princess was a much more dignified and intelligent woman that the Ice Princess, but they were both much-adored and elegantly beautiful 'celebrities'.  The Ice Princess was adored by Gotham City and Princess Diana was adored by the entire real world but it's only the scale that's different, and Gotham is like a microcosm of the real world.

Really? I always got the idea the Ice Princess was a washed up, talentless nobody who was convinced she was a much bigger star than she actually was.

  That too I suppose.

The public did seem to be particularly outraged by her kidnap and murder, which is not to say they wouldn't have been upset if Batman had been seen to murder any other Joe Shmoe but I think the Princess was targeted because she was a popular celebrity, and for the fact that she was the symbolic tree-lighter.

Also, I agree that she was utterly untalented and had an over-inflated opinion of herself but to be honest that speaks for a lot of real celebrities many of whom are very popular.  I think if Burton and co were simply mocking a nobody who had never known any 'success' or fame the satire would have come across as mean-spirited and borderline bullying.  But I believe they were targeting the celebrity culture which makes stars out of relatively talentless fame-hungry morons of the like who fill up the pages of gossip magazines on a weekly basis and have become even more prolific in the decades since the film was first released (i.e. the Vanna Whites, Paris Hiltons, Khardashians and Lindsey Lohans of the world - and there are plenty of male examples as well which I can't think of at the moment).

I agree with the 'washed-up' part which suggests that she might have been more famous at one stage, even if she was never a major star.  Like a lot of minor celebrities, including models and socialites she clearly had delusions of grandeur and believed she was an 'actress' as well as someone who merely lit trees and smiled to the camera.

[The Dark Knight]

And the ones that people love and view as role models are either assassinated or driven to commit suicide by natural means or through drugs. See John Lennon, Elvis Presley, Michael Jackson, Martin Luther King, Jr, JFK and RFK, Princess Diana and so on...

Their deaths do make things a tighter narrative, but those people did leave an impact on society.

Never really took to Elvis. He was jealous of the Beatles and joined up with Nixon (who was removed) to fight against drugs. This hypocrite died via drugs. I can connect with Michael Jackson on occasion with his me against the world mentality, but there are times it becomes too much.

John Lennon is such a painful loss. He had the best personality of anybody. "You wanna save humanity but it's people you just can't stand." Martin Luthor King was more about the idea than the reality. But nobody half decent deserves their life to be removed for no reason.

JFK will always have my respect. I'm not too big on Diana, but again, RIP.

The Ice Princess was just a Kardashian hack who is famous for being famous.

[johnnygobbs]

Never really took to Elvis. He was jealous of the Beatles and joined up with Nixon (who was removed) to fight against drugs. This hypocrite died via drugs. I can connect with Michael Jackson on occasion with his me against the world mentality, but there are times it becomes too much.

I'm a fan of their music and am just about able to disconnect their impact as artists from the less wholesome aspects of their nature.

John Lennon is such a painful loss. He had the best personality of anybody. "You wanna save humanity but it's people you just can't stand." Martin Luthor King was more about the idea than the reality. But nobody half decent deserves their life to be removed for no reason.

My favourite Beatle is George Harrison, although Ringo Starr seems like the nicest of the bunch and has been married to the same woman for the last thirty years which is rare in the entertainment world.  I don't entirely agree with your assessment of Lennon.  He could be a bit of a sanctimonious jerk at times and his ideology was very inconsistent (he hates Chairman Mao but he also imagines a world without religion, he can imagine a world without possessions but doesn't care for the tax-man who simply wants to redistribute the wealth).  However, you're right that his death was a real loss.

MLK and JFK will always have my respect although the latter's politics were much more nuanced than people seem to acknowledge (the same also applies for Nixon who did create the EPA and entered into pacts with Russia and China.  Politics today seems to be much more polarised but back in the 50s/60s/70s the difference between the GOP and Democrats was much more blurred.

The Ice Princess was just a Kardashian hack who is famous for being famous. 

Precisely.  I would have said Paris Hilton myself but the point is the same.  I don't doubt that the Ice Princess was a reasonably famous celebrity of some sort in Gotham but what she was actually famous for is the question.  It certainly wasn't her acting prowess.   

[The Dark Knight]

Truth be told I don't care about the other deaths as much as Lennon. He was a sarcastic jerk at times and I liked that. I could listen to him talk for hours. He had an edge about him and his viewpoints did change throughout his life.  He was no saint. Make no mistake he was jealous, held long grudges and this drove him. He was quick witted, had a dark sense of humour. I like those personalities. It brings out the best in me. The nicest isn't what I personally look for. But everyone's different.

[johnnygobbs]

Truth be told I don't care about the other deaths as much as Lennon. He was a sarcastic jerk at times and I liked that. I could listen to him talk for hours. He had an edge about him and his viewpoints did change throughout his life.  He was no saint. Make no mistake he was jealous, held long grudges and this drove him. He was quick witted, had a dark sense of humour. I like those personalities. It brings out the best in me. The nicest isn't what I personally look for. But everyone's different.

Seems like you understand Lennon well.  Yeah, he was all those things.  Personally, I think he comes off great in his interviews.  I like his chippy sarcasm but the behind-the-scenes accounts of his life paint him as a rather dark, occasionally abusive character.