The Ice Princess and Her Tragic Fate

[Edd Grayson]

Maybe Gordon wanted to talk to Batman and try to clear his name. He trusted him.

[johnnygobbs]

Maybe Gordon wanted to talk to Batman and try to clear his name. He trusted him.

That's what I think too.

I think someone might already have mentioned this but I like how the 'Batman Forever' novelisation mentions how Harvey Dent cleared Batman's name for the various crimes he was framed for (which in turn leads to a reciprocal relationship between the dark knight and the district attorney).  That suggests to me that Batman may still be a suspected felon by the end of 'Batman Returns'.

[Edd Grayson]

Which leads to another question... where was Harvey Dent during the events of "Batman Returns"?

I know all about what Dan Waters wanted to do with him, I want to hear your opinions.

[johnnygobbs]

Which leads to another question... where was Harvey Dent during the events of "Batman Returns"?

I know all about what Dan Waters wanted to do with him, I want to hear your opinions.

What did Daniel Waters want to do with him?

I think there are various possibilities.  One is that Harvey has already become Two-Face in-between the events of Batman and Batman Returns.  Following the defeat of Grissom and the Joker some of the mob is still probably at large in Gotham and trying to take over the rackets, including the likes of Maroni.  Harvey helps Batman put the remaining gangsters away but in the process is attacked during the trial against Mob Boss Maroni thus ending up as Two-Face, going crazy and on a rampage and then ending up in Arkham Asylum whilst Gotham prospers in the meantime (thanks in part to his efforts to rid Gotham of its organised crime element).  He only then emerges, having been partially forgotten about, after the events of 'Batman Returns'.

Of course none of this fits into the continuity in which Harvey is the one who helps clear Batman of the Ice Princess murder etc.  So the other possibility is that he has been booted out of office along with the rest of the old regime, including Mayor Borg, by 'Batman Returns' but as an old alley of Batman he comes back to help out his friend and re-win his old District Attorney position once Mayor Jensen (Michael Murphy and his administration has been discredited for their poor handling of the Max Shreck/Oswald Cobblepot/Tree-lighting debacle situation).

I'm sure others have different thoughts.  What are yours Edd?

[Edd Grayson]

I think Waters' final idea was a scene during the film in which Two-Face flips his coin in the shadows and the good side tells him to wait.

Me, I have no idea that could fit between B89, BR and BF. But I guess I just have to accept he wasn't involved in the events of the second film,  same as how Arkham Asylum and the Wayne company didn't appear until Batman Forever. If I want to see the three as part of the same universe, I have to take it all with a grain of salt.

[Catwoman]

Which leads to another question... where was Harvey Dent during the events of "Batman Returns"?

I know all about what Dan Waters wanted to do with him, I want to hear your opinions.

he was seeing michael jackson's dermatologist.

[Catwoman]

as for the batsignal at the end, i thought batman even though he was heartbroken (and needed to find a new mask lol) immediately went to the commissioner to explain things after leaving the penguin's lair. so by then he was back in their good graces or whatever.

[johnnygobbs]

I think Waters' final idea was a scene during the film in which Two-Face flips his coin in the shadows and the good side tells him to wait.

Me, I have no idea that could fit between B89, BR and BF. But I guess I just have to accept he wasn't involved in the events of the second film,  same as how Arkham Asylum and the Wayne company didn't appear until Batman Forever. If I want to see the three as part of the same universe, I have to take it all with a grain of salt.

There was no reason for Arkham to pop up in Batman and Batman Returns.  All the villains were defeated and killed, or in Catwoman's case, got away, before they could be incarcerated at Arkham.  Besides, out of that bunch of villains I think only the Joker was truly mad, although Catwoman had some clear psychological issues.  As for Wayne Enterprises, who is to say it didn't exist in the first two Batman films?  After all, we do see Bruce attend a business meeting with Max regarding the power plant so it seems logical that Bruce might be in charge of such a company.  Even in 'Batman Forever' he's presented as a fairly 'hands-off' type of boss who only makes the occasional visit to his workforce.

[johnnygobbs]

as for the batsignal at the end, i thought batman even though he was heartbroken (and needed to find a new mask lol) immediately went to the commissioner to explain things after leaving the penguin's lair. so by then he was back in their good graces or whatever.

Maybe, but how is the Commissioner going to explain everything to the families of the victims when it appeared that Batman pushed the Ice Princess off a roof and was seen in the Batmobile careening down Gotham's streets hell-for-leather?  Surely there will be some people demanding he be brought before a court?

[Catwoman]

as for the batsignal at the end, i thought batman even though he was heartbroken (and needed to find a new mask lol) immediately went to the commissioner to explain things after leaving the penguin's lair. so by then he was back in their good graces or whatever.

Maybe, but how is the Commissioner going to explain everything to the families of the victims when it appeared that Batman pushed the Ice Princess off a roof and was seen in the Batmobile careening down Gotham's streets hell-for-leather?  Surely there will be some people demanding he be brought before a court?

easy.

"i'm commissioner by god gordon, this is how it is, and if you don't like it you can build yourself a bridge and get over it."

lol.