The Ice Princess and Her Tragic Fate

[Edd Grayson]

No scarred side for me, just a normal coin.

[johnnygobbs]

Why does it seem that Batman is forgiven for everything at the end of the film when we haven't had any scenes exonerating him of his presumed crimes, including the cold-blooded murder of the Ice Princess?

[The Dark Knight]

Why does it seem that Batman is forgiven for everything at the end of the film when we haven't had any scenes exonerating him of his presumed crimes, including the cold-blooded murder of the Ice Princess?

There's no concrete proof to clear Batman, nor is he going to sit down for a chat to explain it all. But the Penguin's outing during the rally would have gone a long way in explaining things. Who was pulling the strings. Penguin then went on to kidnap children, which Batman foiled himself.

In the comic adaption, there's a 'deleted scene' where the Mayor asks if Batman will ever forgive them. Gordon doesn't know, but he says Batman will always help. That's the crux of it. He always comes back to help. He doesn't care what the public thinks. If they think he's a killer or not, he ventures out to fight crime. Bale's Batman locked himself away for eight years.

[johnnygobbs]

Why does it seem that Batman is forgiven for everything at the end of the film when we haven't had any scenes exonerating him of his presumed crimes, including the cold-blooded murder of the Ice Princess?

There's no concrete proof to clear Batman, nor is he going to sit down for a chat to explain it all. But the Penguin's outing during the rally would have gone a long way in explaining things. Who was pulling the strings. Penguin then went on to kidnap children, which Batman foiled himself.

In the comic adaption, there's a 'deleted scene' where the Mayor asks if Batman will ever forgive them. Gordon doesn't know, but he says Batman will always help. That's the crux of it. He always comes back to help. He doesn't care what the public thinks. If they think he's a killer or not, he ventures out to fight crime. Bale's Batman locked himself away for eight years.

You make some very good points but firstly, whilst there certainly is no concrete proof my point is that one would expect the Ice Princess's murder and the subsequent 'joy-ride' which presumably injured and possibly killed several Gothamites to merit a thorough investigation requiring a vigilante like Batman to be hauled in for questioning, though not necessarily arrest.  Also, just as the bloody Batarang and some loudmouth pointing out Batman during the Ice Princess's fall goes no way to proving Batman was guilty of killing the Princess the Penguin's humiliation during the rally and subsequent involvement in the kidnapping of Gotham's first-born go no way to proving the converse, that Batman had nothing whatsoever to do with the Princess's death or the joy-ride.

Also, whilst you once again make a very good point about this Batman caring little about his reputation so much as he does about undertaking his duty to fight crime that still doesn't explain why the Batsignal is still shining above Gotham City at the end of the film (I do appreciate this shot was part of a reshoot incorporating Catwoman's survival).  It might have made more sense if Batman had gone back to being an 'unauthorised' vigilante acting without the tacit approval of Gotham's officials following the events of the re-scheduled tree-lighting ceremony.

[thecolorsblend]

How do we know Batman was even a suspect to begin with? Gordon would probably have final say on whether Batman would be charged or not. He obviously was willing to give Batman the benefit of the doubt. The movie does portray Gotham citizens as being sheeple, true, but theirs isn't the final say. The only thing that suggests Batman was a suspect was circumstantial evidence. There's nothing concrete that GCPD were ever really prepared to charge him with anything apart from some overzealous beat cop opening fire on Batman before any questions could even be asked.

[johnnygobbs]

How do we know Batman was even a suspect to begin with? Gordon would probably have final say on whether Batman would be charged or not. He obviously was willing to give Batman the benefit of the doubt. The movie does portray Gotham citizens as being sheeple, true, but theirs isn't the final say. The only thing that suggests Batman was a suspect was circumstantial evidence. There's nothing concrete that GCPD were ever really prepared to charge him with anything apart from some overzealous beat cop opening fire on Batman before any questions could even be asked.

I agree with all that colors, but once you add in the fact that Batman was seen careening through the streets in the Batmobile knocking cars over then you have to figure that there would be some pressure on Gordon to bring Batman in for questioning.  Plus, Gordon might have been the city's top cop but you have to figure that there would have been political pressure from the mayor to haul Batman in for such an apparent high-profile murder from the general public if not other more powerful figures too.  The mayor's job was on the line and even though the Penguin had been exposed and his threat for the mayoralty ruined that wouldn't necessarily end the pressure on the mayor to go.  Bear in mind that Batman is operating in exceptional circumstances outside the law.  It would only take the slightest suggestion of impropriety for the alarm bells to ring.

So, circumstantial evidence or not, it's unlikely that Batman would escape questioning.  That doesn't mean he'd be arrested but there surely would be pressure to bring him in to explain himself and help the GCPD with their enquiries.

[thecolorsblend]

Nonsense. Batman exposed Cobblepot (thereby saving the Mayor's job) and then took him down. Batman's joyride through Gotham, the bloody batarang and his proximity to the Ice Princess when she took a swan dive off a building (esp with one of Cobblepot's ever present umbrellas found nearby) aren't enough to convict anybody. I could sooner see the mayor deciding he and Batman were even and letting it go under the circumstances.

[johnnygobbs]

Nonsense. Batman exposed Cobblepot (thereby saving the Mayor's job) and then took him down. Batman's joyride through Gotham, the bloody batarang and his proximity to the Ice Princess when she took a swan dive off a building (esp with one of Cobblepot's ever present umbrellas found nearby) aren't enough to convict anybody. I could sooner see the mayor deciding he and Batman were even and letting it go under the circumstances.

And what about the families, of the Ice Princess and the joy-ride victims?  Wouldn't some of them put pressure on the mayor to look into Batman.  Heck, even members of the general public particularly the press or anyone else with a grudge against Batman might want these matters properly investigated.  Also, wouldn't the joy-ride be enough to get Batman banged up on charges of reckless endangerment, at least until the police uncovered solid evidence that the Penguin was controlling the Batmobile?

Once again I'm not saying Batman would be arrested but I can't see the mayor et al being okay with letting Batman go in view of all the unanswered questions regarding his reckless and potentially criminal behaviour.  Batman is not in the clear for the crimes he was believed to have committed just because he was able to expose the Penguin and presumably Shreck (although even there it is not clear whether Shreck's criminal undertakings were ever revealed to the public meaning that his murder would surely prompt more concern by the police especially once Batman was found to have been at the scene of his death).

[DocLathropBrown]

I like to think the Bat Signal came on at the end because the GCPD were trying to lure Batman into their hands.   

[johnnygobbs]

I like to think the Bat Signal came on at the end because the GCPD were trying to lure Batman into their hands.   

You jest but that's kind of what I figured.  Not to say Batman would be dumb enough to walk into the police's hands but simply that Gordon was presumably trying to communicate with Batman as a means of clearing him of any suspected wrong-doing.

I also suspect that the Red Triangle Circus gang members captured by Batman during the kidnapping of Gotham's first-born probably came clean in the end regarding the Penguin's part in framing Batman.  Still, I can't help thinking that it would be a while before Batman was ever entirely trusted by Gotham again.