The Dark Knight Returns

[Silver Nemesis]

Another possible pick for the Joker would be Klaus Kinski, who would have been 60 in 1986. That was the year he made Crawlspace.

I doubt he'd have taken the role, but if he had the results would have been interesting.

[The Joker]

Glad you liked the Angie Dickinson suggestion, Silver. I am personally not familiar with much of Angie's work to be perfectly honest, but know her best from "Dressed to Kill". Probably like a lot of other people. 

Another suggestion I had thought about for TDKR ageing Selina, was Louise Fletcher. Yeah, Nurse Ratched herself. She's about 4 years younger than Clint, so the age appropriateness wouldn't have been a issue. And I believe she had the overall physical build of Selina from Miller's book as well. More importantly, I think she would have no problem evoking a sense of being a woman in charge in by portraying a version of Selina Kyle who is now a Escort Madame at this stage in her life.

In addition to all that, I think the scene of the Joker (played by Jack Nicholson) confronting Fletcher's Selina in a unannounced visit would have added a very unique and perhaps powerful subtext to the entire scene itself (as well as how Batman finds Selina later on ...) considering their well known chemistry/rivalry from the classic film, "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest". Imagine the scene of Jack's Joker surprising Fletcher's Selina as a uninvited guest, with her blurting out, "Oh, jesus!" in fear, upon seeing him standing nearby. I can't help but think that sort of scenario with those particular actors would add a little extra oomph for audiences. Especially those already familiar with Cuckoo's Nest.



Just a thought among many.

I considered Julie Newmar, as she would have been 53 in 1986 and had already played a trashy hooker in the 1985 movie Streewalkin'.

My main problem with Newmar was simply that she'd already played Selina in an unrelated production. If it was West playing Batman, then she would have been perfect. But I think it would have been weird seeing her play Catwoman opposite Eastwood.

Casting Newmar as Selina Kyle in 1986, in my mind, would almost literally require Adam West as Batman in 1986. Making a 1986 live action adaptation of Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns, taking place within the '66 universe  20 years later.

Having said that, this would be seen as Warners taking a cue from Paramount with "Star Trek: The Motion Picture" (and to which West himself appeared to have been hoping for considering his interviews around the time about his desire to return to the role along with, I'm sure, '66 cast members.). However, a TDKR undertaking within this frame work, would have, I would imagine, been seen as incredibly bold and possibly even more startling to the general public than even what we got with Burton in the 1989 modernization. Especially so in the notion of taking such a beloved version of Batman, and turning that literally on it's head. I'm sure the Mcdonalds Stans and Karens would have made the b*tching and moaning about Batman Returns in 1992 look like mere childs play with this one! I also believe, as a positive point, this would have REALLY driven home a theme of one of the things Miller was going for with his TDKR story. This being a older Silver Age/Bronze Age Batman coming out of a retirement in a, now, hellish Gotham City of the 1980s.

As a side note, the notion of just how much Batman's world had changed from the Silver Age to the late 1980's, was also something that was in the background with Moore/Bolland's "The Killing Joke" in 1988. As early on in the story, there is a featured photograph displaying a classic silver age pinup featuring the silver age versions of Batman, Robin, Bat-Woman, Bat-Girl, Bat-Mite, and Ace the Bat-Hound. Which, evidently, suggests the photograph was there to evoke a sense of a more simple, and carefree past in Batman's career. Juxtaposed with the more darker, harsh reality of the present.



Something like this, with a Adam West Bruce Wayne in his 50's, looking upon a portrait, could have been included in a scene somewhere.

I'm sure the logistics of this kind of undertaking with the '66 cast would have been a absolute nightmare. I guess it's possible there would have been some legal problems between Fox and Warners on this type of film? In addition to the '66 cast not being all that shy in 1989 about their dislike/distaste of Burton's darker edged version of Batman. Could all the players required be signed? Maybe. Maybe not. How would Two-Face be resolved in a adaptation of TDKR within the pre-established '66 universe? Include him anyways, or replace him with a villain who appeared in the original '66 series, and with whom?

It's interesting to think about, but if in some parallel universe there exist a 1986 "The Dark Knight Returns" movie as a followup to the '66 Batman series, starring Adam West as Batman, Julie Newmar as Catwoman, and Ceasar Romero as returning as well as The Joker, that's a movie I couldn't help but want to see.

[thecolorsblend]

I suppose you could bend the rules of the adaptation by replacing Two-Face with False Face, thereby retconning some sort of backstory between Bruce and False Face's civilian identity. Of course, that ruins the reveal of Dent not being scarred after all. So hmm.

[The Joker]

Yeah, it's such a great scene between Batman and Two-Face in TDKR, that such a adaptation would have to, unfortunately, change to some extent. Including such a scene, with Two-Face included, would work for comic book fans, but I fear his inclusion would feel a bit hollow for the general, as there would be no familiarity with him. False Face might work, but the only problem I have with him, is that I am not sure if people found him all that memorable like (outside of the big 4) King Tut, or Egghead? I like False Face, but I don't ever really recall anyone talking about him, or bringing him up all that much. He's kinda like the Archer, Sandman, or Shame in that respect. But with a more interesting look, and gimmick.

I suppose bringing back Eli Wallach as Mr. Freeze might work for the 'cured' scenario, with Freeze going back to a cryogenic suit (perhaps something invoking the George Sanders Freeze suit), implying his sub zero body temp condition returned, only for Batman to find out during their confrontation that isn't the case ...

In some ways, I would kinda prefer Gorshin's Riddler as the replacement for Two-Face, to be perfectly honest. Mainly because of the familiarity already being there, and because, well, it's Frank Gorshin. Perhaps in this scenario, the Riddler being considered 'cured' would have him reemerge as being graceful, rather well disposed, with a completely different hair style than we are used to seeing him with (more on that in a minute). The big problem with using the Riddler, is that there wouldn't be a Two-Face like swerve. However, I think the part where Batman internalizes, "The scars go deep. Too deep. I close my eyes, and listen. Not fooled by the sight I see. As he is. I can see him. I see ..." can work with Gorshin's Riddler. Standing before Batman, you would have a very debonair Riddler, but the change part is where Batman closes his eyes to "see" him, there Batman would have Gorshin's Riddler standing before him wearing his purple mask, in his green question mark suit, the familiar slicked back hair, and with that zany smile and giggle. Indicating the Riddler was never truly 'cured'. Much like Two-Face, the scars run too deep and he will forever be a mental prisoner to his severe megalomania/OCD. You can have this conclude like the book with the, "I see a reflection." line, and thus giving Gorshin's Riddler a 'ending/book end' of sorts. Kinda like Two-Face in the TDKR universe.

But yeah, the Two-Face thing/replacement is tricky. 

[Silver Nemesis]

I think the character from the sixties TV show that would prove least compatible with the tone of TDKR would be Neil Hamilton's Commissioner Gordon. The thought of him blowing some punk's brains out with a .44 Magnum is hilarious. But considering he passed away in 1984 the role would have needed to be recast anyway.

Another suggestion I had thought about for TDKR ageing Selina, was Louise Fletcher. Yeah, Nurse Ratched herself. She's about 4 years younger than Clint, so the age appropriateness wouldn't have been a issue. And I believe she had the overall physical build of Selina from Miller's book as well. More importantly, I think she would have no problem evoking a sense of being a woman in charge in by portraying a version of Selina Kyle who is now a Escort Madame at this stage in her life.

Fletcher would certainly be an interesting choice given her onscreen history with Nicholson. She'd have been the right age for it too. I must also confess that I'm one of those sick individuals who finds Nurse Ratched strangely attractive.

[thecolorsblend]

I think the character from the sixties TV show that would prove least compatible with the tone of TDKR would be Neil Hamilton's Commissioner Gordon. The thought of him blowing some punk's brains out with a .44 Magnum is hilarious. But considering he passed away in 1984 the role would have needed to be recast anyway.

Another suggestion I had thought about for TDKR ageing Selina, was Louise Fletcher. Yeah, Nurse Ratched herself. She's about 4 years younger than Clint, so the age appropriateness wouldn't have been a issue. And I believe she had the overall physical build of Selina from Miller's book as well. More importantly, I think she would have no problem evoking a sense of being a woman in charge in by portraying a version of Selina Kyle who is now a Escort Madame at this stage in her life.

Fletcher would certainly be an interesting choice given her onscreen history with Nicholson. She'd have been the right age for it too. I must also confess that I'm one of those sick individuals who finds Nurse Ratched strangely attractive.

I've never actually seen One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest so everything I know about it (and Ratched) comes from pop cultural osmosis. Still, she is kind of attractive in a Glenn Close-meets-Cruella-DeVille kind of way.

[The Dark Knight]

I think the character from the sixties TV show that would prove least compatible with the tone of TDKR would be Neil Hamilton's Commissioner Gordon. The thought of him blowing some punk's brains out with a .44 Magnum is hilarious.

It would be sad given it would be a commentary on that world's decline. B66 Gordon blowing off a thug's head doesn't work only if we pigeonhole him, and the other characters, as being exactly what they were in the show. People change throughout their lives, and we should expect them to. Context is everything, and that is mostly a journey of personal experiences which is rarely understood by others. All we get is "you're a hypocrite, you said this on [insert date here], you're a sellout and you have changed." The realists now know the rehabilitation programs didn't work, the sunshine was replaced by rain, and the world only became crazier. In the words of a former Sheriff I admire, "it's not what I'd prefer, but if you insist, then it's time to saddle up."

[Silver Nemesis]

[The Dark Knight]

Legends of the Dark Knight #40

[thecolorsblend]

For a director, I think perhaps Walter Hill or James Cameron would have been a good choice at the time.

That's another thing I've been contemplating. I think Ridley Scott deserves some thought.

When you go back to things like Thelma & Louise, GI Jane and Gladiator, you start realizing that Scott seems to have an affection for strong-willed individuals rising up against oppressive systems. Sometimes these rebels with wills of iron win and sometimes they lose. But he's touched on that theme a few too many times for me to believe that he doesn't find something captivating about it. I pulled those movies off the top of my head and Wikipedia says they came out in a nine year span. That's an awful lot of time hammering a generally similar theme, wouldn't you say? And TDKR is probably the gold standard of Batman rising up against an oppressive society/government as much as the criminal underworld. I think that element of TDKR would uniquely play to Scott's dramatic sensibilities. It's worth considering.

And we must mention Blade Runner, obviously. That film alone should qualify him for "visionary filmmaker" status. So, there's probably not very much in TDKR that would prove to be an insurmountable challenge for Scott.

But I warn you, it's not a perfect fit. Scott has a known and demonstrable affection for female protagonists. But there's no Ripley in TDKR. It's Batman's story. Everything flows from him, to him and revolves around him. Let's face it, some of Scott's most memorable work seems to include a more powerful central female figure than TDKR offers. I suppose the counter-argument could be that TDKR sacrifices quality for quantity. There's no central female character in TDKR but there are quite a few strong female supporting characters (Lana, Carrie, Selina). Still, it's a trade off he might not have been willing to make.

Availability might've been an issue too. Legend in 1985, Someone To Watch Over Me in 1987 and Black Rain in 1989. Not much free time, I'd imagine. But it's possible that he could've worked it in.

My final reluctance with Scott is that TDKR might've required an American viewpoint. Obviously, Scott isn't American. I wouldn't say that Miller presented a peculiarly American depiction of Ronald Reagan. But still, there is a nuance to TDKR's Reagan that, frankly, a non-American might not be completely aware of. Or sensitive to.

I ruled out Paul Verhoeven (with regrets) because I think he would emphasize the wrong elements of TDKR in the wrong way. He seems comfortable working with a cynical, jaundiced view of systems and institutions of power. At first blush, that makes him an intriguing candidate to direct TDKR. Where the wheels come off the wagon for me is that his fixation on the theme of Humans Being Dehumanized (by technology or lust or military power or whatever) could result in a kind of bizarre take on TDKR which, frankly, is not appropriate. The borderline misanthropic view of consumer culture and the unwashed masses is not necessarily foreign to TDKR but it's not really a perfect fit either.

Lacking everything else, it might've been worth it to call up Wolfgang Petersen to see what he's up to.