The Dark Knight Returns

[The Laughing Fish]

I used to hate how Superman allowed himself to be a pawn to the government. But nowadays, I'm beginning to think he may have made the right decision. You only need to take a look at the Earth One comics as an example of Superman rebelling against governments and how those actions can impact negatively on the rest of the world. By overthrowing that dictatorship in Borada, Superman may have believed he was doing was what was best for an oppressed population, but the concerns and doubts over his intentions within the political community intensified even further. The consequences led to world leaders considering contingency plans to stop Superman, even kill him. The fear and uncertainty over his intentions led to some disastrous decisions, specifically getting tricked by Zod.

As the country in The Dark Knight Returns had already outlawed costumed heroes, can you imagine how the situation would've been much worse if Superman didn't comply with the Reagan administration? It could've made him vulnerable to a BvS situation, where somebody like Lex can use his own power and resources to smear Superman to manipulate the wide consensus. Worse, maybe the Reagan regime would've done the job to smear his name by themselves, and conspire to do something to destroy him altogether. Instead, Superman's compliance allowed him to carry out his duty and mitigate the tense circumstances over the Cold War.

It's unfortunate scenario, but if surrendering to become an agent to the government is necessary to keep the peace in a troubled country and world, Superman's decision to do so is reasonable.

[The Laughing Fish]

I found this video of Grant Morrison talking about The Dark Knight Returns.

I find myself agreeing, and disagreeing with him at the same time. Yes, you could argue Batman is a somewhat inspirational figure who puts his life on the line to make things better, but that still doesn't negate the fact he is quite a tortured character. It can be said that he relishes the dangerous challenge; whether it's fighting the Mutant Leader or he has that hallucination with the bat pledging he's not finished might mean he is a bit of masochistic. Don't mistake me for criticising it. Far from it. I'm only observing it as a legitimate character flaw that makes Batman fascinating.

Morrison is right to say TDKR isn't exactly a "realistic" approach to the character, but it does have its moments. And they're not quite positive. Batman's return inspires copycat behaviour, whether it's the departed Mutants who become the Sons of Batman, cosplayers who get themselves killed, or the crazed gunman who shot the entire theater. I remember that being one of my biggest criticisms when I first read the comic, because it reminded me if a guy like Batman existed in the real world, there would be people inspired by him in the wrong way. This is one of the reasons why I prefer the animated adaptation as the better take on the story. It scraps most of those negative influences and focuses on the positive, such as the moment where a shopkeeper on the news talked about how he found the urge to fight back at his assailants, implying Batman was a good inspiration to people. Because of that, I finally began to appreciate Batman adopting the Sons of Batman and fighting together to take Gotham City back from the chaos during the blackout.

[The Dark Knight]

I used to hate how Superman allowed himself to be a pawn to the government. But nowadays, I'm beginning to think he may have made the right decision. You only need to take a look at the Earth One comics as an example of Superman rebelling against governments and how those actions can impact negatively on the rest of the world. By overthrowing that dictatorship in Borada, Superman may have believed he was doing was what was best for an oppressed population, but the concerns and doubts over his intentions within the political community intensified even further. The consequences led to world leaders considering contingency plans to stop Superman, even kill him. The fear and uncertainty over his intentions led to some disastrous decisions, specifically getting tricked by Zod.

As the country in The Dark Knight Returns had already outlawed costumed heroes, can you imagine how the situation would've been much worse if Superman didn't comply with the Reagan administration? It could've made him vulnerable to a BvS situation, where somebody like Lex can use his own power and resources to smear Superman to manipulate the wide consensus. Worse, maybe the Reagan regime would've done the job to smear his name by themselves, and conspire to do something to destroy him altogether. Instead, Superman's compliance allowed him to carry out his duty and mitigate the tense circumstances over the Cold War.

It's unfortunate scenario, but if surrendering to become an agent to the government is necessary to keep the peace in a troubled country and world, Superman's decision to do so is reasonable.

What needs to be realized is that Superman represents more than just himself. He's going to be safe and can hold his own just fine 99% of the time. But that's not the problem. The issue is that he shoulders the burden of humanity and he can't be everywhere at once. If the world leaders decide nuclear war is happening he can't do much to stop it. If the populations of the world are all angry, depressed and fighting in civil wars he can't stop that. He's a strong individual, but he's one man and it's not his world. His actions have great flow on effects. When you consider these things it makes sense for why Superman sides with the Government. Once things reach a tipping point it's all over. He either becomes a dictatorial alien warlord or he sits back to watch humanity suicide itself. It's a wrestle to keep the equilibrium of peace and Superman knows that.

[The Laughing Fish]

I agree. It goes to show Superman is a far more compelling character than most people give him credit for. It's such a shame a lot of people can't make up their minds about they want from him. To them, he is either a "boring lame character" if he doesn't face much challenges, or he is too "miserable and depressing" if he does experience some turmoil. Trying to find a middle ground with the general consensus is close to impossible.

[thecolorsblend]

Trying to find a middle ground with the general consensus is close to impossible.

Indeed. Honestly, Superman fans are the worst about that.

But the end result is that Superman is in very serious danger of becoming WB's Mickey Mouse. Disney faced a similar challenge for a lot of years in that there was virtually nothing they could do with the character that wouldn't "tarnish" him in some way or another.

The consequence of that was Mickey becoming a corporate mascot while other Disney characters found audiences (or new audiences) and their popularity grew while Mickey's stagnated or even decreased.

Anybody who thinks that can't happen to Superman has been in a coma for fifteen years now.

[The Dark Knight]

But the end result is that Superman is in very serious danger of becoming WB's Mickey Mouse. Disney faced a similar challenge for a lot of years in that there was virtually nothing they could do with the character that wouldn't "tarnish" him in some way or another.

The consequence of that was Mickey becoming a corporate mascot while other Disney characters found audiences (or new audiences) and their popularity grew while Mickey's stagnated or even decreased.

Anybody who thinks that can't happen to Superman has been in a coma for fifteen years now.

I think that has already happened. I don't even think he's the DC mascot these days. The company may say that as a feelgood gesture, but reality tells a different story. I'd say Wonder Woman, Aquaman and of course Batman have that mantle now.

Cinematically they don't know what to do. Justice League reverted the character back to a one-dimensional cartoon with the old Williams theme and awful mouth CGI. I'm confident Cavill will be sitting on the sidelines doing nothing but aging from now on. I think they're making a Supergirl movie instead - on top of the Krypton and Supergirl TV shows that already exist. Superman is either a supporting act or nowhere to be seen.

Superman only really exists via the comics and the movies we already have. Apart from that the brand is stagnant, and to be completely honest, it's hard to maintain a fandom in that kind of environment. We have the animated movies but the focus is once again the death arc. That seems to be all he's good for.

Sadly, Superman has become an idea/plot device and not much of an active character.

[The Laughing Fish]

My biggest problem with the overreaction towards Superman on film in the last couple of years is the criticism stems from this bizarre obsession of Superman being this happy go lucky caricature, to the point they don't want to see him face any challenges.

Don't believe me? I've seen people wishing the scripts in the Snyder movies had set up a deus ex machina where he doesn't have to take certain course of actions. That, to me, is an audience that WANTS to be cheated. It's utterly idiotic, but that's the sort of people we're dealing with. I've no doubt wider audiences would've taken issue with Superman's personal dilemma in TDKR if that was a live action film. The worst part is, you've got comic personalities like John Ostrander saying a Superman who struggles is just a brooding Batman clone, which is so myopic I can't even fathom that it's coming from a creative.

Source: http://www.comicmix.com/2016/10/16/john-ostrander-making-a-better-superman/

I have no hesitation to acknowledge the DCEU Superman is far from perfect, but this whole fuss about the lack of smiles and so forth is incredibly petty and superficial. This is yet another example of people wanting to have their cake and eat it too when it comes to certain DC Comics characters.

[thecolorsblend]

The Ostrander thing is especially disappointing because he should know better. But I'll circle back to that.

Look, fans are good at telling you what they want. I'm as guilty of that as anybody else. More guilty than some others, I might add. I love watching Batman beat people up. That hits the fanboy itch in just the right way for me. I cherish Batman's other attributes. But if you want my money, you'll show Batman kick the snot out of five or six bad guys in each issue. That's what I love seeing in Batman stories.

But fans need to recognize that these are characters and they need to meet the dramatic requirements of the story. And in Snyder's story, Superman is initially greeted with a slightly furtive reception by the world in MOS, he saves the day and he's quickly embraced as a pseudo-mythical god of a sort, then the desert incident from BVS is faked by Lex and the world starts wondering if Superman is somebody they can trust before Superman sacrifices his life to stop Doomsday.

That's as much of the story as Snyder was able to tell and, frankly, you're not being honest with the audience if you tell that story in such a way that Superman is unaffected by those things. If you tell Snyder's story without Superman earnestly hoping to prove his noble intentions in MOS and then being uncomfortable with his pseudo-god image at the start of BVS and then hurt over the fact that he's being rejected by the very people he saved so many times over in the middle of BVS, it's creative bankruptcy.

And frankly, Ostrander of all people should understand that.

Ostrander took over on Firestorm after Gerry Conway left. Conway set up Firestorm as a slightly conflicted but still freewheeling fun superhero. He was intentionally created by Conway to be a Marvel character in the DC universe and the juxtaposition served Firestorm very well. The Conway run on Firestorm is cherished by fans to this day because of how Conway integrated a Marvel archetype so successfully into the DC universe. A thousand writers could try the same trick a thousand different ways for a thousand years and never even come close to what Conway was able to do.

Now, I don't think it's fair to Ostrander to say that he came on to Firestorm and then shat all over the Conway stuff. But it is nevertheless true that a lot of the core elements that Conway created to define Firestorm as well as his place in the DCU were things Ostrander apparently didn't think twice about upending.

He essentially recreated Firestorm into something very different from (some would say diametrically opposed to) what Conway had originally intended the character(s) to be.

Ostrander changed a lot of foundational properties of what Firestorm was intended to be to such an extent that a lot of fans (a LOT, trust me) wondered if Ostrander ever understood wtf Firestorm was all about in the first place.

So for Ostrander to come back and say that Superman shouldn't X, Y or Z is simply insane to me. Of all people, he really has no right to take potshots at other creators for creative actions that, let's face it, were far less egregious than a lot of his creative decisions have been.

[The Dark Knight]

Look, fans are good at telling you what they want. I'm as guilty of that as anybody else. More guilty than some others, I might add. I love watching Batman beat people up. That hits the fanboy itch in just the right way for me. I cherish Batman's other attributes. But if you want my money, you'll show Batman kick the snot out of five or six bad guys in each issue. That's what I love seeing in Batman stories.

The character is a detective (and hopefully Reeves does push this angle a lot) but he's also a ninja. And being a ninja means cool action. I specifically like it when Batman has the odds stacked against him, and through sheer grit, he muscles his way to victory even if it means sustaining his own fair share of punishment. Case in point the B89 Cathedral sequence and the Court of Owls labyrinth. The whole 'I'm not locked in here with you, you're locked in here with ME' mindset. A huge thrill of Batman is a peak human achieving the impossible and being cool about it.

[The Laughing Fish]

I read Frank Miller's Daredevil: The Man Without Fear awhile ago, and while I was reading the final chapter where Matt Murdock fights off those child traffickers to rescue Mickey, I noticed him making a jumping pose similar to Batman in TDKR.



Nice little homage there.

I have a confession: I really enjoyed Miller's five part Daredevil origin story more than his take on Batman. You can definitely see where the Netflix show got the inspiration from. Brilliant.