The Killing Joke

[Andrew]

Well I think Moore himself has said he shouldn't have gone as far with the violence and sexualized-violence in a Batman story, the editors should have stopped him from crippling Barbara, at least they shouldn't have been so indifferent. That could just be the editors being cavalier about supporting characters rather than female characters but it's unclear.

I like that the comic is very irreverent to taboos and conventions but that understandably makes it controversial.

[thecolorsblend]

Well I think Moore himself has said he shouldn't have gone as far with the violence and sexualized-violence in a Batman story, the editors should have stopped him from crippling Barbara, at least they shouldn't have been so indifferent. That could just be the editors being cavalier about supporting characters rather than female characters but it's unclear.

I like that the comic is very irreverent to taboos and conventions but that understandably makes it controversial.

I'll defend that one small aspect of TKJ. It's easy with today's freakishly sensitive standards to criticize the people involved with making the comic.

But back in the 80's, Moore all but walked on water. After Swamp Thing, V For Vendetta and Watchmen, nobody was likely to challenge Moore on just about anything. So when Moore turns in something like TKJ, an otherwise mediocre story which is drenched in gratuitous violence... well, his other comics sold a mint so why won't this one?

I'm not defending TKJ. I've never been overly fond of it. But I think I understand the circumstances which allowed it to come into existence in the first place and I'll defend those circumstances.

[The Laughing Fish]

Well I think Moore himself has said he shouldn't have gone as far with the violence and sexualized-violence in a Batman story, the editors should have stopped him from crippling Barbara, at least they shouldn't have been so indifferent. That could just be the editors being cavalier about supporting characters rather than female characters but it's unclear.

I like that the comic is very irreverent to taboos and conventions but that understandably makes it controversial.

I could've done without the sexualised violence. It's not the kind of subject I want to read in a comic and it's only added for unnecessary shock value, which is something I never liked about TKJ.

But I'm not too bothered over the crippling of Barbara Gordon. It's not as if it diminished her as a character either; as a matter of fact, a pop culture writer by the name of Jill Pantozzi says she relates to Barbara as Oracle the most because of she shares the same disability, and I have no doubt that other comic book readers with similar disabilities share that sentiment. It also allowed the introduction of new characters taking the Batgirl mantle, as I said before. Like it or not, there is a silver lining to that scene in TKJ.

Once again, I'm not very comfortable to read a comic book that has sexual violence. But I think thecolorsblend once made a good point to suggest a slippery slope if comics writers start avoiding any scenario where a female character is in peril just for the sake not being called a misogynist. If No Man's Land came out today, critics would be complaining about the Huntress being violently shot by the Joker, and Joker shooting Sarah Essen to death towards the end of the story. If it's wrong to inflict any sort violence against women, the same standards might as well be applied to men then. And if that's the case, we'd never get stories like A Death in the Family or Batman comics at all.

[thecolorsblend]

But I'm not too bothered over the crippling of Barbara Gordon. It's not as if it diminished her as a character either; as a matter of fact, a pop culture writer by the name of Jill Pantozzi says she relates to Barbara as Oracle the most because of she shares the same disability, and I have no doubt that other comic book readers with similar disabilities share that sentiment. It also allowed the introduction of new characters taking the Batgirl mantle, as I said before. Like it or not, there is a silver lining to that scene in TKJ.

Those are post-hoc additions though. Babs as Oracle happened in large part because nothing much had been done with the character since TKJ.

When Moore crippled Babs in TKJ, that was the end of line for him. Other writers came along later and gave her a new direction. The end result was fantastic... but it doesn't change the fact that Moore had no such thing in mind when he wrote what he did.

[The Dark Knight]

A strong visual reference to The Killing Joke with this Three Jokers art.

https://www.newsarama.com/49339-all-batman-three-jokers-art.html#s3

I like that art. Not many comic projects have excited me in recent times, but this one does. It's a ludicrous concept, such as Under The Red Hood's resurrection of Jason Todd. But I let that slide given the significant emotional power such stories bring. The drama of the situation makes it real. I'll be keeping a close eye on this.

[thecolorsblend]

A strong visual reference to The Killing Joke with this Three Jokers art.

https://www.newsarama.com/49339-all-batman-three-jokers-art.html#s3

I like that art. Not many comic projects have excited me in recent times, but this one does. It's a ludicrous concept, such as Under The Red Hood's resurrection of Jason Todd. But I let that slide given the significant emotional power such stories bring. The drama of the situation makes it real. I'll be keeping a close eye on this.

DC brought TKJ into continuity and I think they've regretted it ever since. They've tried on a few occasions to wash Jason and Babs blood off his hands. This seems like another attempt to do so.

That doesn't mean it's a bad idea though.

[The Laughing Fish]

Alan Moore hosted a Q&A session on Goodreads.com some time ago, and it appears he debunks the theory that Batman killed the Joker at the end of TKJ.

for the record, my intention at the end of that book was to have the two characters simply experiencing a brief moment of lucidity in their ongoing very weird and probably fatal relationship with each other, reaching a moment where they both perceive the hell that they are in, and can only laugh at their preposterous situation. A similar chuckle is shared by the doomed couple at the end of the remarkable Jim Thompson's original novel, The Getaway.

Source: https://www.goodreads.com/author/3961.Alan_Moore/questions

It doesn't say what the date was when he wrote this. But judging by how the question refers to the animated film was getting made, my guess is this happened four or five years ago. You can find the comment for yourself if you select "Oldest" on the Sort by drop down menu on the link above.

Speaking of the ending, I look at the last couple of shots of the raindrops hitting the puddle on the ground as Batman and Joker are laughing, and now I've got the first five lines of Purple Rain stuck in my head.

Yeah, I've got a twisted sense of humour. 

[Travesty]

So what does the title "The Killing Joke" mean? It makes no sense to me, unless Batman killed him in the end.

Am I missing/overlooking something?

[The Dark Knight]

So what does the title "The Killing Joke" mean? It makes no sense to me, unless Batman killed him in the end.

Am I missing/overlooking something?

I'm of two minds about the ending. The title would have more direct meaning if Batman strangled the Joker, after he uttered his last ever joke. But then we have this line from Gordon: "I want him brought in...and I want him brought in by the book! By the book you hear, We have to show him! We have to show him our way works!"

I think this broadcasts the intent of not just Gordon, but the comic itself. Batman doesn't snap after tragedy, even though he'd like to. The Killing Joke could therefore be that Batman doesn't kill his opponent even after all that has been inflicted, and mixed in with the Joker's belief life itself is a joke.

[thecolorsblend]

Batman and the Joker will kill each other in the end. Pretending otherwise is a joke.