The Kaiju/Monsterverse Thread (Kong & Godzilla)

[The Dark Knight]

I like Alien, Aliens, Predator and Predator 2 to a lesser extent. But apart from that I've never been into the monster scene that much. I quite like Peter Jackson's Kong. It's definitely not perfect but I can appreciate what he was going for in terms of crafting another epic ala LOTR, and creating a weird and dark world with Skull Island.

I like the 1930s setting a lot. It's when the world was a bigger and more primitive place. It's more believable an uncharted place full of dinosaurs could have existed away from the modern world. It's why Indiana Jones works so much better in that timeframe.

In a fight, I'd say Kong would get more blows in. But are those blows going to do anything substantial? That's the question. And I'd wager Godzilla only really needs one radioactive breath to hit and the meeting is over. Kong would have to do more to survive, and thus stay in the fight. If Godzilla did arrive at Skull Island, I think it would be too much to handle.

[The Joker]

Challenge accepted. Besides, there's plenty of time before GVK comes out anyway.

Tonight? Kong: Skull Island. Because Godzilla 2014 isn't on HBO Max. Or, if it is, I couldn't find it. So, Kong: Skull Island it is.

Honestly, pretty enjoyable little movie. I know basically jacknothing about Kong. Ditto Godzilla, for that matter. I think there was a window of opportunity for my fandom to go in a monster kind of direction. But after B89 came out, that was it, show's over, it's comic book and superheroes from here on in. Still, I do remember the interest I had in monster movies when I was a kid and that same sense of mystery and thrills was going on with Kong: Skull Island.

I think the real secret weapon of Kong: Skull Island is Sam Jackson. The movie obviously needs a baddie and Jackson's character is perfect for that. The warrior who can't contemplate peacetime, he was always planning on going out in a blaze of... something. Can't say glory. But definitely something. I think it was fine for him to die as a villain than live a lost, mixed up soldier. From the jump, he was always on a suicide run. Kong only put him out of everybody's misery.

Considering Godzilla 2014's seeming absence from HBO Max, all that's rly left now is Godzilla: King of the Monsters. Figure I can tackle that one tomorrow night.

That's what I am talking about!



Happy to hear you liked Kong Skull Island, Colors.

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Yeah, TDK, I can see why you gravitate towards more of the 1930's setting. As there was decidedly more of a mystique in the public consciousness about uncharted designations and such. The time frame was perfect really. The Peter Jackson 2005 Kong, and even the 1976 remake to some degree (it was directed very competently for the time and had a great score to be honest), was more 'high art'. The original '33 set a pretty high bar, and both of the subsequent remakes wanted to at least reach that mark. That was essentially their goal. With Kong Skull Island, the goal wasn't to be some grand epic, but just to have fun with the King Kong concept while expanding upon the Legendary Monsterverse that was established in 2014. If anything, it succeeded.

It's definitely going to be a fight, but if there is a aspect of Kong that is carried over from the original 1962 King Kong vs Godzilla, I would have to assume that Kong will be illustrated to have a scary brute strength that makes him formidable alone. Never mind that he's going to be a strategic fighter on top of that. As, apparently, Kong will be wielding a giant axe in fighting Godzilla to even the playing field just a little bit (take notes, Thor ... Kong's going for the head!). I also liked that Kong knew better than attempt to go into the water after he knocked Godzilla off into the water in the GvK trailer. That's not where you want to be when fighting Godzilla, and Kong knows this. Going back to the '62 original film, I remember King Kong picking up Godzilla by his tail, and literally swinging him around off his feet! Kong appears to be swinging around a snake or something in the trailer (which in turn is colliding with a bat like creature), and I would not be surprised if he does this again in GvK only with Godzilla getting the treatment. Both are going to get their licks in for sure. Godzilla is no push over. It's going to be a fight. And it should be extremely entertaining as well.

Personally, I've always been a monster/giant monster/creature/animal guy since I can remember. I'm there. Like Colors, Superheroes and Comics, but just add monsters to the list. Maybe JAWS sparked it? But yeah, that sort of stuff has always been my jam.

[The Joker]

Official Japanese trailer

The Big G gets some offense in this one.

[The Joker]

New official poster that expands upon the GvKK aircraft carrier fight sequence that's much more of a back and forth according to the footage that's been release thus far.

[The Joker]

Nice little retrospective of the Kong and Godzilla franchisees and rivalry.

[The Joker]

SPOILER REVIEW:



Whelp, checked this out, finally, on Friday and was pretty entertained by the film itself. Once again, GvK deviates from Godzilla 2014's style of storytelling, and is definitely a non-apologetic popcorn movie, as has been most of the Monsterverse movies, so if you're down with that, you shouldn't have any worries.

First off, the film is decidedly more focused on Kong than Godzilla in GvK. I mean, both have their characterizations, but in this one, Kong was elevated here to another level. The amount of expressionism and character he was given here was damn near Caesar levels and I loved it. When the ending came I honestly felt like he was even more solidified as a proper kaiju within the Monsterverse continuity, and seeing him end his arc and start a new journey was a change of pace for sure.

So yeah, while I would say all the other Monsterverse films featured human characters as the protagonist, it's Kong taking center stage in GvK. Without a doubt.

Godzilla was much less prominent in the overall plot and acted as more of the "other combatant you should be afraid of" with an aura of villainy to him. However, when he did appear on screen he utterly stole the show. He's an absolute BEAST and everyone knows it. From the predatory way in which he circled the aircraft carrier and tried to drown Kong, to his epic rampage scenes in Pensacola and Hong Kong and finally his climatic battle with Kong, just a complete badass.

But yeah, on the question of who wins?

It's Godzilla.

Pretty much everything pointed to a Kong win with how the film and the plot was structured, but nope. Kong gets off a good shot (yeah the one that's in all the trailers), and wins a round, but the battle ends with a Godzilla victory, who then shows mercy on Kong. However, I think the cool thing to point out is that Kong never yielded in the fight. The dude took a "SUBMIT" roar while being stepped on and still roared back a loud "SCREW YOU" right to Godzilla's face.

With the fight, it's s spectacle all right. I literally freeze framed the fight in several shots, and every frame is a painting. It was so well lit, even at night time you could see everything. Loved it. No rain or storm to obscure it. Which was a welcome change for sure.

As to why Godzilla shows mercy, it's never really explained. I would suspect that Godzilla recognized Kong's intelligence and use of strategy during the fight, and thus respected him as a top tier kaiju. Which basically separates his mindset from previous Godzilla's, as it's understood that both the Godzilla and Kong species in the past, were far from friendly with one another. Actually, the axe weapon Kong uses in the film is found within the hollow earth embedded firmly within a skull of a long dead Godzilla if that tells you anything. So in that sense, to me, it's akin to Rocky Balboa and Apollo Creed, which started adversarial, but grew into a mutual respect by the end. Luckily for Godzilla, choosing not to kill Kong worked out for the best, as when Mechagodzilla appears, he's pretty much the BvS Doomsday in this, and it very much takes both of them to stop the mecha titan.

With Mechagodzilla, I think overall has a nice blocky 80s robot look to him (like a G1 Transformer). In this universe, this is the very first of it's kind, so it shouldn't look overly designed or super sleek. So this works for me, but man, with the limited screen time, MechaG DOES deliver one hell of a smackdown to both Godzilla and Kong!

As far as flaws go, I don't have a issue with the pacing too much, as the 2 hours flew by thanks to the breakneck pacing, but it seemed fairly obvious that the film was cut down significantly to acquire the near 2 hour running time. I am one of those guys who liked the theatrical cut of BvS, but having said that, it was even more glaring that GvK was subjected to some rather significant cuts which had an effect on large portions of the plot and stuff presented. Ren Serizawa was a character I felt was underwhelming. Especially in light of his father's role in G2014 and Godzilla King of the Monsters. I was initially expecting his character to be something memorable, but he was just kinda there. Also, GvK has two parallel stories (Lind, Andrews, Jia, and Kong for the A Plot (Team Kong); Madison, Josh, and Bernie for the B Plot (Team Godzilla)) and the villain Walter has three major henchmen (Ren, Maya, and Mechagodzilla) with Godzilla serving as a second faux villain who naturally turns out to be not as villainous as previously thought after all. For a movie that isn't even quite 2 hours, that's a LOT going on. GvK was kinda the worst script, based on what we've seen of it, to try to chop down to under two hours. They did it, and it's worked out successfully, but going forward they REALLY need to take cues from Rampage and The Meg and just stick with ONE core group and story line to be perfectly honest.

That's pretty much a wrap. Can't say I really had a horse in this race and I would have been fine with either winning in this version between Kong and Godzilla, but it's an enjoyable romp and is aided significantly with how emotive Kong is as a character. As he's very much the protagonist in this film. Good to see that it's doing so well at the box office even though it shared a dual release on HBO Max like WW1984 back in Dec. I understand that Toho is open to continue licensing out Godzilla to Legendary/Warners (I believe Legendary are much more invested monetary wise than Warners), so we'll see what happens.

Personally, i wouldn't mind seeing a Kong 2, Godzilla 3, leading to a rebooted version of Destroy All Monsters, but once again, we'll see. Much like ZSJL, I can imagine GvK viewing/streaming numbers being rather significant.

[The Dark Knight]

This is an enjoyable popcorn movie.

My other thoughts:

Human characters can sink these films but I found the story engaging enough to justify the premise.
The action delivered what I was wanting. There was enough of it, and it was clearly visible.
The outcome of the fight is logical and not insulting to either monster.
Godzilla is heavier, has thicker hide and atomic breath, but Kong is the better fighter and a more interesting character.
Visually it's nice to look at, especially when the story ventures into a certain exotic land.

I'm a Kong guy, so I liked the focus he had. There's a deeper emotional element, exciting physical movement and that stubborn never give up attitude. Even when he's outmatched, he'll pick up the axe, roar and never back down. I find Godzilla boring in comparison. Essentially just a set of scales in the water and a slow lumbering mass when on foot. But I think both fanbases should leave feeling satisfied with the finished product.

I enjoyed it, but GvK is all I really need with the concept.

[The Joker]

Oh, MechaG getting a sweet poster.

[The Dark Knight]

In the real world I would 100% support the creation of a Mecha Godzilla. Godzilla is a force of nature who swims the oceans and can stomp in anywhere at any time, causing thousands of deaths and a big mess. Imagine having that level of dread hanging over humanity all the time.

Even well behaved dogs can snap and maul people - because they're animals. Because of that I'd be looking to kill Godzilla any way I could, and that goes for any other similar creature. It's logical.

But not Kong. If Kong causes a mess in a city that's on humanity because they brought him there via boat. He's only defending himself in an alien environment, and would have preferred remaining home at Skull Island.

[The Joker]

Having liked Legendary's 2014 Godzilla film, the movie repeatedly made it abundantly clear that Godzilla was non-antagonistic towards humanity. Even to the point where he would dodge ships, choosing to dive deeper underwater to avoid any potential collisions, and not even retaliating even when Godzilla was under attack (the bridge scene). Sure, it was the film's way to illustrate that Godzilla wasn't the bad guy in this, but I personally prefer (if we're going with Godzilla being more heroic than villainous) the more unpredictable notion where Godzilla could save the city from another kaiju, and then turn around and burn it to the ground directly afterwards. Who's the say? What would stop him? In some ways, this is akin to Bruce's mindset and reaction to 'Mankind's introduction to the Superman' in BvS. Which was shared with the public as well, and also would likely be a similar reaction to a Godzilla that suddenly appeared to battle another kaiju, and then disappear back into the deep sea. The consensus would be split. Some would view him as a savior of sorts due to his interference with a much more hostile monster (a view that may very well deepen if Godzilla remained incognito for a extended stretch of time afterwards), while other's would probably view Godzilla as a literal demon from hell.

Mechagodzilla's backstory within the Godzilla films has changed over the years, just like the continuity itself. Originally, in the Showa era (kinda like a Earth-Two or Pre-Crisis sense), Mechagodzilla was a villainous cyborg built by aliens to tackle the firmly established good guy earth defender Godzilla in the mid 1970's. When MechaG was re-introduced in the early 1990's during the Heisei era/continuity (we'll just go with Post-Crisis on this), MechaG was indeed a military creation to take down Godzilla. As in the Heisei films, Godzilla was portrayed as more of a anti-hero than being completely heroic as he was in many of the Showa films. There are other versions of him of course, but evidently the Legendary Mechagodzilla was built in secret by the Apex company, and while Apex's intentions are understandable, (apparently) being forced to use the decapitated Ghidorah head as a CPU of sorts, which of course turned out to be a extremely bad idea and no doubt caused even more casualties than the Godzilla vs Kong fight that preceded MechaG's reveal.

With King Kong, it's much more of a tragic situation there. He's basically got the stranger in a strange land thing going, and depending on which version we're discussing, there is a degree of sympathy towards him. One thing I appreciated about the original 1962 King Kong vs Godzilla (other than Kong being much more of a powerhouse in it), was that Toho kept the "Beast" motif going pretty strongly throughout the film. Yes, Kong was definitely the "good guy" in the film, as opposed to the outright villainous Godzilla in 1962, but Kong was also very much a beast in the film. Even attacking cities, and finding a human female who was obviously scared sh*tless (much like Fay Wray's Ann), to become infatuated with. Ever since the 1976 King Kong movie, Kong has been much more romanticized in his portrayal, along with there being genuine affection between Ann and Kong. Where in the 1933 original, Fay Wray's Ann Darrow came across as more detached to what happened to Kong, than 1976's Dwan or the 2005 Ann Darrow was. That's for sure.