Things that recently hit you from the movie / script / behind the scenes?

[LongLiveTheBatman]

To this day, I'll notice something new about this iconic movie. They just put in so much effort and detail. They were out to make waves!

What are some things you just noticed recently?



Movie:

- Lighting of the Belltower Scene: No way could I have appreciated this when I was kid. I realize how lovely that belltower scene looks with the blue-ish hue. If it had more of a whitish / greyish look, I don't think it'd look as fairytale-esque. The blueish hue is a nice style choice. And the actual light hitting the Batman mask a certain way, I really love that now. As a kid, I thought these movie scenes happened just like that. But getting older, you realize how intentional it is.

- Alfred!: I always loved Alfred, but getting older I realize how much he adds to the movie. He gives it a sense of fun and humor. He also doesn't say too little or too much. They got his attitude just right.

- Bulletshot in the Shoulder: Sad to say, I have to admit I only noticed this in my latest viewing. Pretty embarrassing, but I never saw it in HD til recently. When the Joker throws the feather pen and kills the mob boss, a few gun shots go off. Bruce gets shot in the arm and keeps on walking. I couldn't tell if the squib's smoke actually came from the arm or just a bullet hit going off in the background. In a following shot, you clearly see a hole in his coat. Alfred even pokes his finger through the jacket hole. I don't know why but I never noticed that til now. By adding that, it makes the metal plate (under the shirt) to catch the bullet, more believable later in the film.

- Batwing detail: This really stood out to me way more as an adult. My eyes saw the deep grooves by the wings and I thought "Wow they wanted to make this look as good as they possibly could." Then they show Batman in the cockpit. And for some reason, I teared up?! I was thinking of how they were out to defy the odds and they truly wanted this to be a memorable experience. The inside of the Batwing cockpit is unbelievable. I'm not just talking about the dashboard, but the areas around the seat. Someone had to design that, cast that, and make sure Keaton could act in it. All these little details stand up to this day. They cared so much about making this good. Even the little white letters next to the missiles are a nice touch. It's the type of lettering you'd see on military weapons and aircraft. It just seems that much more "not just for kids."

- When the Batwing goes down, I notice the lights in the building more often. I usually never care about that stuff. But someone actively "leaves a light on" in that mini-set. It's all intentional. They could have just left all the lights out and visually it wouldn't have the same kick, the same pop. Leaving some lights on made it feel slightly more real and it just reminds me more of the effort put into creating this blockbuster film.

- Dave Lea: I notice him way more now. He's largely responsible for Batman's confident body language and fighting style.

- Bell falling from the Belltower: I'm not sure how they did this exactly. Wires, mixed with breakaway floors. It looks visually stunning and we truly believe that bell weighs a ton. The bell falling never phased me as a kid. But getting older and seeing more movies, you realize how BADLY they could have done that haha. It was done so well.

- Broken concrete from the Joker fall: I know it's just what the movie prop masters are supposed to do, but the broken-in concrete after the Joker falls is fantastic! When I looked at the detail, a day ago, I realized there are SO many special effects in this movie that are done subtley. Love it!



Script:
- Sam Hamm = played a huge part in creating the Batman we got. The producers had an amazing vision. But Sam Hamm's screenplay from 1986 would help get the gears in motion. So much of that script survived into the actual movie.

- How much do you weigh?: I'm a little embarrassed about this too. When I saw it in the movie, I thought it was just to have a little flirty humorous banter between Batman and Vale. But the script says they don't fly all the way up to the platform because she weighed more than 108 lbs.

" Her additional weight is too much for the reel mechanism. They're
     stranded two stories up -- SITTING DUCKS. "

It's underlined in the script. Did anyone get this the first time they watched?

- Destroyed Leg: In the movie we got you can tell Batman is battered. The script really drives the point home.

" BATMAN. Broken, beaten, his right leg useless, he hauls
     himself up the steps one at a time. He should be dead.
     Dried blood cakes his face, his chest. "

In the ending Vicki helps him rehabilitate his leg. The script lays everything out clear as crystal.




General BTS:
- David Lea's inspiring story: The way Dave Lea got picked to be the other man inside the Batsuit, almost seemed like accident. He was just going to be doing some stunts, but ended up a huge part of Bat-lore. He's the real deal and had a big background in martial arts. They saw him do a few moves and said wow let's see that inside the suit, right? But what if he didn't have the moves or frame? What did they have planned for Keaton's stunt double? Needless to say they lucked out with Dave and perhaps, Dave looking so much like Keaton, influenced the shots we got in the final film (how close you can get, what angles they show the moves from, etc.)

- Elfman's story: It stood out to me when Elfman told his story on the making of documentary. They were doubting him, not really feeling it at first. Then he played the iconic theme and right then he was hired. Much like the making of this legendary movie, Elfman's story was that of triumph and beating the nay-sayers. The first time I teared up at a behind-the-scenes feature. With that legendary piece of music, he shook their doubts and landed the job. It would eventually cement him as one of the best composers in movie history. He did other movie work before this, but this project made his career.

- The Producers + The Belltower Scene: Only now, with all the behind-the-scenes info in mind, do I realize how much of this movie is theirs. I used to think "Oh Batman 1989, yeah Burton's Batman." But they had so much creative control, and knew what they wanted to go for.... And it worked completely! Producers tend to a bad rap for forcing a movie, for rushing things, for making crazy illogical decisions. They tend to be the source of blame for fans. In this movie, however, they got it right! Burton did as much as he could under their guidelines. That final belltower scene is my favorite. They made some huge last minute changes to cause that scene to happen. The results were epic. Everytime I see the belltower scene now, I think of the producers.


Name everything that hit you after revisiting the movie!

[KeatonisBatman]

How much do you weigh?: I'm a little embarrassed about this too. When I saw it in the movie, I thought it was just to have a little flirty humorous banter between Batman and Vale. But the script says they don't fly all the way up to the platform because she weighed more than 108 lbs.

It's underlined in the script. Did anyone get this the first time they watched?


I always thought that was obvious... ie. that's why Batman and Vicki stopped halfway up.  Of course Batman clears up any confusion afterwards by saying "You weigh a little more than a hundred and eight..."

[LongLiveTheBatman]

Right that's why I saying embarrassingly so. But yeah the reason I didnt get it at first was because it still went up even with the weight miscalculation. I get it now.

What were some things you noticed more recently?

Not necessarily something that no one's noticed before, just personally things that you appreciated more through time or things that resound to you more recently.

[thecolorsblend]

There's a lot happening with B89 on a technical level. Arguably model and wire effects were at their pinnacle by this point so there's a metric crapton of craftsmanship in even the most innocuous things. For example the Batmobile doesn't storm Axis Chemicals guns blazing. No, first we see the hatches pop off, the guns roll up and then they start firing... which, needless to say, is the harder trick to pull. There are tons of little details like that going on.

Not to sound cranky (esp since I rather like the new technology) but these days there's less a sense of awe and wonder. Modern audiences never ask how the movie guys did that because on some level they know it's some kind of computer effect (even if it's just the finishing touches, which is rare all by itself). But stuff like dropping a huge bell that weighs a couple of tons down a huge stairway shaft with all the damage and carnage that ensues is a minor engineering miracle, made all the more impressive by the abject lack of computer effects giving the filmmakers any assistance.

Some stuff can only be done digitally. I well understand that. But that doesn't mean there's not a lot to admire with models, miniatures and other old school tricks.

[KeatonisBatman]

Right that's why I saying embarrassingly so. But yeah the reason I didnt get it at first was because it still went up even with the weight miscalculation. I get it now.

What were some things you noticed more recently?

Not necessarily something that no one's noticed before, just personally things that you appreciated more through time or things that resound to you more recently.

Oh okay I gotcha!  Yeah I think that was one of Burton's attempts (and successful I might add) at humor within the film.

I never really noticed until recent years that the Batwing crashing on the steps was a "model"... I mean you watch the thing crash and then there's Vicki running up to the wreckage.  I think seeing it on blu-ray helped me really pick out the fact that it was "fake."  Still, I think the scene looks pretty good for what it is.

In terms of things I noticed later and can appreciate more, I'd say it's the scene between Joker and Batman during the final fight. 

The line where he says "You killed my parents" and Joker just says "What are you talkin' about?  I was a kid when I killed your parents." always confused me because there was never a direct sort of way that their identities were revealed to one another.

Clearly the Joker had put it together that Wayne was Batman in that very moment... case in point... he met Bruce Wayne in Vicki Vale's apartment so he would know his voice, right?  Now, Napier also had to have known or found out at some point in his life that he killed this "high profile couple."  We he met Bruce Wayne at Vicki's apt, I believe Joker knew who he was already by reputation in the least.  This makes sense because when Batman asks "Have you ever danced with the devil in the pale moonlight" in the bell tower, he uses his Bruce Wayne voice, and the Joker knew him to be Wayne.  That's how the line "I was a kid when I killed your parents" makes sense.

Did I just go in one big circle and confuse anybody?  haha

[LongLiveTheBatman]

I always remember this being a good movie, but, as a whole, I never thought about how much of an effect it had on superhero movies and even the action genre in general. It just shows how great (and serious) you can make a high-fantasy movie when you put in the right effort.

Colors, well said! I always look at the hatches flying off. It just makes it that more exciting. I never noticed how great the special effects were. But think about how BAD certain things could have been if they didn't do it correctly. Imagine how BAD the concrete could have been at the end when Joker is lying there. Imagine how BAD the bat cave could have looked. Imagine how BAD the batwing could be modeled. But no! They put it in great effort and mastery. The effects are subtle and not distracting.

Keatonis, I love the humor they add to the film. There isn't too much humor or too little. They found a great balance.

The dialogue in the belltower scene was perfect. It's poetic. The line "Have you ever danced with the devil in the pale moonlight?" is why I always thought that's when the Joker realizes Wayne is Batman. I know there's some debate about it among fans, but I think that's what settles it for me. And he definitely does use his Wayne voice there. That scene had great action and perfect dialogue.

I also remember in the recent WTFpodcast interview, Keaton mentioned that during the date between Wayne and Vale at the long table, he suggested the humorous bit at the beginning. It's where Vicki asks "Can you please pass the salt?" and by the end of it Wayne says something like "You know actually I don't think I've even been in this room before." So everytime I watch that scene I think of Keaton's humor coming through in a behind the scenes sorta way.

[thecolorsblend]

Colors, well said! I always look at the hatches flying off. It just makes it that more exciting. I never noticed how great the special effects were. But think about how BAD certain things could have been if they didn't do it correctly. Imagine how BAD the concrete could have been at the end when Joker is lying there. Imagine how BAD the bat cave could have looked. Imagine how BAD the batwing could be modeled. But no! They put it in great effort and mastery. The effects are subtle and not distracting.

To your points, and this is not to bash on the franchise, I think Star Trek is a good example of how much these sorts of effects evolved over the years. You go back and watch TOS and for as entertaining as those episodes are, a lot of those establishing shots of the Enterprise look pretty cheap. TV show, limited budget, from the 60's, etc. I get it. But compare those shots with goofy lighting, bad camera movements and models with basically zero articulation and texture to subsequent films from, say, the 80's or even the 90's, where the ships have texture out the wazoo, the lighting is basically as good as money can buy and the cameras use the right kind of lenses with the right frame rates to give the illusion of this SOB actually moving through three dimensional space in a believable way. The state of the art had advanced so much in a very short amount of time that it's really amazing how much could be achieved even during the original Trek's movies and stuff.

I've never been one of those analog-only/models-and-puppets kind of people but the past few years and, specifically, the original (unaltered) Star Wars trilogy have shown me just how powerful that technology remains. Yeah, some shots just don't hold up and probably weren't even very good by the standards of their day but (A) that's showbiz and (B) the same can be said of a lot of computer-driven effects (to at least the same degree).

Here's my B89 effects lovefest. One major thing that makes B89 work for me is Burton's natural affection for matte paintings and models. Yeah, the technicians seriously outdid themselves with the majority of shots, no doubts there, but I have to think Burton was very much a perfectionist with a lot of those shots. He's the ringleader. What I always point to is the establishing shot of Gotham City at the top of B89. It's very well done on a technical level but the music and the credits have already really drawn you into the movie so that by the time that matte painting pops up, you immediately understand the style and reality that Burton is setting up. The cloudy sky, the foggy streets, the diffused moon light, all that stuff immediately sets up Batman's world and everything that's about to unfold and it lasts, what, a whole 5 seconds? But Burton packs one hell of a punch in that single shot. And not to sound old and cranky but, as much as I dig CGI and computer stuff, I just don't think you could hit that same level of quality if you swapped in a 3D digital painting with subtle movement from cars/headlights, rolling clouds, etc. Yeah, it'd be more technically advanced but somehow the hand-painted shot just does it for me. I dare say I fear what that shot could have been in another filmmaker's hands.

Better shut up now before I gush even more.

[KeatonisBatman]

I always remember this being a good movie, but, as a whole, I never thought about how much of an effect it had on superhero movies and even the action genre in general. It just shows how great (and serious) you can make a high-fantasy movie when you put in the right effort.

Yup.  I mean, after Superman The Movie, there wasn't anything that could really compete in terms of the superhero genre.  Batman came out and blew people's minds.  I think also it kinda undid the typical view of the "80s Action Hero" and guys like Schwarzenegger.  I mean suddenly Keaton was this kick ass crimefighter, and it was believable.  I still remember the hype surrounding the film.  I was begging my parents to buy me anything and everything Batman.  I have a vivid memory of sitting in a Red Lobster for dinner sometime in '89 with my whole family.  I couldn't even eat (or didnt want to) because I was so focused on the Topps trading cards that my mother had let me buy earlier in the day. 

[The Dark Knight]

The fire as Axis Chemicals  burns is quite clearly planted in places, but no other full scale explosion has as much satisfaction as this. The glorious, bright yellow flame just works wonders, as does the rubble flying around. The image and feeling gets it through.

I love the initial pull back shot of the building and the heavy, low thud as the device goes off. Take a look at it again - this mighty animal has been cut off at the legs. The Batmobile isn't driving that fast in the scene either, which creates a mix of swaggering amongst destruction, but also a degree of danger. All round satisfying.

I suppose what I'm trying to say, is that even if certain things seem dated, something else will get it through. That's the benefit of making movies well.

[Bobthegoon89]

The Batmobile gliding through the blazing inferno with Elfman's thunderous music score is the coolest movie car moment in history. Jumping tumbler Batmobile my sweet ass! lol