Man of Steel

[Azrael]

Hans Zimmer's style (like every composer from John Willaims to Danny Elfman) is a style you can imagine in your mind. I'm expecting a dark, operatic "Gladiator" style score. One that will no doubt have similarities to his Dark Knight scores. I'm sure it will be okay but only that word. Williams 1978 score was special. That music is engrained in most people's DNA. You can't just write that off as being "well it's only just music". Try to imagine a time of Superman before that music existed. It's difficult to shake something like that (as it is with Christopher Reeve).

This is exactly what people were saying before Zimmer's Batman. Elfman's remains more memorable and hummable, but Zimmer's fit like hand in glove with the films it was composed for. I used to be negative too, but that was almost 2 years before the first MOS trailer was shown. Would you prefer Tyler Bates, Snyder's usual collaborator?

I'm sure come this summer I'll be reading letters from fans in my local sci-fi magazines saying "how crap those Reeve Superman movies were to be honest in light of this fantastic new version". Raimi's Spider-Man got that last year in light of it's reboot. I'll just wipe my butt on those comments because it's silly lol

I like them (the first two), but... if something like that happens, well, it will be almost like... "vengeance" for all those years where I was seeing in online communities Superman '78 being held as a masterpiece, and Batman '89 as a little flawed film that hasn't aged like wine.

[Bobthegoon89]

If the Reeve films get a pounding I won't be rushing to their defence. I usually don't have that stance - but I just don't have any emotional investment in them and don't think they're much chop. I have a fear Man of Steel may be pushed too far into emo territory - but in any case will easily be the best film of the franchise. The original Superman theme by Williams won't be topped, but even that became bigger than the actual films themselves. A good theme and performance by Reeve doesn't make the whole show succeed in my view. I think the material in MOS will be fleshed out better and simply be more interesting.

I guess I feel the same way about Smallville and Lois and Clark lol Although Lois and Clark I've gotten into more now on dvd. As a kid in the nineties I thought it was a poor man's Superman compared to Christopher Reeve (and they were old movies then).

I'm surprised you dislike them. For me they are the ultimate Superman projects. No tv show has ever come close to them frankly. I think they do deserve their status and what the filmmakers were able to achieve for their time was pretty remarkable.

Oooh let's not jump to conclusions yet mate. Best in the franchise? Too early to tell. I'm sure people will take to the new Superman Henry Cavill, but Christopher Reeve has mountains of respect from fans like me and the general public. Not least because of his real life events. I'd wish for his legacy to still be remembered and enjoyed in-sync with the new one. I think possible deliberate attempts to erase that from certain fans is a little heartless.

[thecolorsblend]

Watchmen is no classic unfortunately. Good yes but still very artsy fartsy at least to me.

...

Uh, you've read the comic book, right?

Hans Zimmer's style (like every composer from John Willaims to Danny Elfman) is a style you can imagine in your mind. I'm expecting a dark, operatic "Gladiator" style score. One that will no doubt have similarities to his Dark Knight scores.

He's given interviews aplenty where he's said that he is bringing a different approach to Superman because it's fundamentally a different character. He basically said people should expect a lighter and more melodic type of sound rather than the dark, percussive stuff that defined his Batman material. Assuming he's telling the truth and assuming the tracked music in the trailers is suggestive of what he's up to, I'd be willing to give him a day in court.

I'm sure it will be okay but only that word. Williams 1978 score was special. That music is engrained in most people's DNA. You can't just write that off as being "well it's only just music".

Actually, you can. Singerman from 2006 pretty handily proved that audiences under the age of about 30 have absolutely no awareness of the Williams score, STM or any major trappings of the Reeve era.

Try to imagine a time of Superman before that music existed. It's difficult to shake something like that (as it is with Christopher Reeve).

I disagree. The Ruby-Spears Superman cartoon used the Williams theme in the opening credits but otherwise had a hero theme of it's own and it played well.

STAS had a new theme and it fit perfectly.

Smallville had it's own hero theme and that too was awesome, and fit the style the show was going for.

There is (or can be or should be) a lot more to Superman than the Williams stuff.

I'm sure come this summer I'll be reading letters from fans in my local sci-fi magazines saying "how crap those Reeve Superman movies were to be honest in light of this fantastic new version". Raimi's Spider-Man got that last year in light of it's reboot. I'll just wipe my butt on those comments because it's silly lol

Given how lauded Reeve is, I suspect anybody who feels that way would be shamed into silence. Hell, I'm one of the few people I know who's desperate to move on from the Reeve stuff.

I'm surprised you dislike them. For me they are the ultimate Superman projects. No tv show has ever come close to them frankly. I think they do deserve their status and what the filmmakers were able to achieve for their time was pretty remarkable.

My gripe with them is that there came a point where they became bigger than Superman himself for some people. They've taken on waaaaaaaaay too much influence. As much as I enjoy Burton's Batman, I've never been prepared for that to subsume the comics continuity. However, that's more or less what ended up happening with Superman. It's annoying. Just because one particular writer has no imagination for Superman beyond Richard Donner doesn't mean that the rest of us should have to put up with that stuff.

Oooh let's not jump to conclusions yet mate. Best in the franchise? Too early to tell. I'm sure people will take to the new Superman Henry Cavill, but Christopher Reeve has mountains of respect from fans like me and the general public. Not least because of his real life events. I'd wish for his legacy to still be remembered and enjoyed in-sync with the new one. I think possible deliberate attempts to erase that from certain fans is a little heartless.

People were anointing Heath Ledger as the greatest Joker ever based on far less info than TDK has to work with. Not saying either of 'em are right, mind you, just that he could've spoken up about that a lot sooner.

[Bobthegoon89]

Watchmen is no classic unfortunately. Good yes but still very artsy fartsy at least to me.

...

Uh, you've read the comic book, right?

I tried for about 30 minutes unfortunately before I died of agonising boredom lol Like I said I found it artsy fartsy as a movie and as a comic. I don't exactly care what critics and fans say raving about it being the greatest graphic novel ever written. I go on my own gut instinct on whether I enjoy a story or not and in that case I didn't. Couldn't invest the interest in a lengthy story. I guess I coped better with the movie.

Hans Zimmer's style (like every composer from John Willaims to Danny Elfman) is a style you can imagine in your mind. I'm expecting a dark, operatic "Gladiator" style score. One that will no doubt have similarities to his Dark Knight scores.

He's given interviews aplenty where he's said that he is bringing a different approach to Superman because it's fundamentally a different character. He basically said people should expect a lighter and more melodic type of sound rather than the dark, percussive stuff that defined his Batman material. Assuming he's telling the truth and assuming the tracked music in the trailers is suggestive of what he's up to, I'd be willing to give him a day in court.

Well that sounds alright. Like I already said I'm sure it'll be fine. Whether it's iconic however...

I'm sure it will be okay but only that word. Williams 1978 score was special. That music is engrained in most people's DNA. You can't just write that off as being "well it's only just music".

Actually, you can. Singerman from 2006 pretty handily proved that audiences under the age of about 30 have absolutely no awareness of the Williams score, STM or any major trappings of the Reeve era.

Try to imagine a time of Superman before that music existed. It's difficult to shake something like that (as it is with Christopher Reeve).

I disagree. The Ruby-Spears Superman cartoon used the Williams theme in the opening credits but otherwise had a hero theme of it's own and it played well.

STAS had a new theme and it fit perfectly.

Smallville had it's own hero theme and that too was awesome, and fit the style the show was going for.

There is (or can be or should be) a lot more to Superman than the Williams stuff.

You realise of course it's John Williams your unimpressed with? lol Pretty much the greatest film composer ever. Just roll off all the themes he's written. Perhaps this was a factor into why the Superman theme was so good?....

I'm sure come this summer I'll be reading letters from fans in my local sci-fi magazines saying "how crap those Reeve Superman movies were to be honest in light of this fantastic new version". Raimi's Spider-Man got that last year in light of it's reboot. I'll just wipe my butt on those comments because it's silly lol

Given how lauded Reeve is, I suspect anybody who feels that way would be shamed into silence. Hell, I'm one of the few people I know who's desperate to move on from the Reeve stuff.

No offence to you but you say your "one of the few"? Could that be because so many people still enjoy and love the films? I don't see how a minority can change peoples memories and favourites so easily. I don't think Superman needs to move on from Reeve. That's a little melodramatic. It's already been done on television.

I'm surprised you dislike them. For me they are the ultimate Superman projects. No tv show has ever come close to them frankly. I think they do deserve their status and what the filmmakers were able to achieve for their time was pretty remarkable.

My gripe with them is that there came a point where they became bigger than Superman himself for some people. They've taken on waaaaaaaaay too much influence. As much as I enjoy Burton's Batman, I've never been prepared for that to subsume the comics continuity. However, that's more or less what ended up happening with Superman. It's annoying. Just because one particular writer has no imagination for Superman beyond Richard Donner doesn't mean that the rest of us should have to put up with that stuff.

It's inevitable that a successful comic book movie or tv show will influence the comics world like it or not. This happened with the Batman tv show and recently the Nolan films. With all due respect sometimes it makes things better and I believe this was certainly true of Superman. I don't know about you but I happen to like the fortress of solitude as a crystalline pyramid than with the silly giant gold key...thingey lol I'm sure you understand what I mean. Would we also have a character like Harley Quinn without the influence of other media? Might I also direct your attention to the movie "Kill Bill Vol 2" in which the title character, a comic buff no less, states of Superman "Not a very well drawn comic..." Visually at least the movies made some enhancements for the best.

Oooh let's not jump to conclusions yet mate. Best in the franchise? Too early to tell. I'm sure people will take to the new Superman Henry Cavill, but Christopher Reeve has mountains of respect from fans like me and the general public. Not least because of his real life events. I'd wish for his legacy to still be remembered and enjoyed in-sync with the new one. I think possible deliberate attempts to erase that from certain fans is a little heartless.

People were anointing Heath Ledger as the greatest Joker ever based on far less info than TDK has to work with. Not saying either of 'em are right, mind you, just that he could've spoken up about that a lot sooner.

[thecolorsblend]

You realise of course it's John Williams your unimpressed with? lol Pretty much the greatest film composer ever. Just roll off all the themes he's written. Perhaps this was a factor into why the Superman theme was so good?....

It's not that I'm unimpressed with him. Far from it. The entire score is phenomenal. I can't think of very many film scores where each track is made up of nothing but awesome... but the majority of entries are composed by Williams.

Nah, what bugs me is this the neverending devotion some people have to all elements of that movie. If it was religion we were talking about, we'd call those people zealots. And the fact is that among casual Superman fans (or just non-fans), I can't blame them for having this attitude. They don't know anything else, mostly. But when even the (supposed) core fans take that attitude... eh, it just makes me wonder what (if any) comics they've been reading that make them think Donner is the end all, be all. Good movie, I dig it, it's one of my faves... but there's more to Superman than that.

[thecolorsblend]

Smallville had it's own hero theme and that too was awesome, and fit the style the show was going for.

Here's what I mean. It fit the style that the show went for perfectly.

[The Dark Knight]

Actually, you can. Singerman from 2006 pretty handily proved that audiences under the age of about 30 have absolutely no awareness of the Williams score, STM or any major trappings of the Reeve era.

Exactly exactly exactly. When I say I have very little connection with the Reeve films I mean it.

Sure, people think Reeve did a great job in the role. But I don't think I'm being heartless when I say I believe the story of Reeve became bigger than the movies themselves. Like Ledger's death. For example I think Welling was excellent in the role. He's my Clark Kent. It's is perfectly acceptable to move on do things other things.

Williams Superman theme simply does not make an entire film cinematic gold. If Elfman had his masterpiece B89 score but the movie was a letdown, at the end of the day the movie is a letdown. A good score can help but it doesn't become the film. It's the whole package.

Superman 78 is an uneven film with weird choices, IMO. It's held up as the best of that era but is far from perfect. If the script and themes are superior but people think Zimmer dropped the ball, the new movie still wins out. And I'm confident that can be done.

I don't want to come off as a hater, it's just how I feel. And I'm sure others out there are with me.

Given how lauded Reeve is, I suspect anybody who feels that way would be shamed into silence. Hell, I'm one of the few people I know who's desperate to move on from the Reeve stuff.

Yes.

My gripe with them is that there came a point where they became bigger than Superman himself for some people. They've taken on waaaaaaaaay too much influence. As much as I enjoy Burton's Batman, I've never been prepared for that to subsume the comics continuity. However, that's more or less what ended up happening with Superman. It's annoying. Just because one particular writer has no imagination for Superman beyond Richard Donner doesn't mean that the rest of us should have to put up with that stuff.

Yes!

People were anointing Heath Ledger as the greatest Joker ever based on far less info than TDK has to work with. Not saying either of 'em are right, mind you, just that he could've spoken up about that a lot sooner.

YES!

[Bobthegoon89]

You realise of course it's John Williams your unimpressed with? lol Pretty much the greatest film composer ever. Just roll off all the themes he's written. Perhaps this was a factor into why the Superman theme was so good?....

It's not that I'm unimpressed with him. Far from it. The entire score is phenomenal. I can't think of very many film scores where each track is made up of nothing but awesome... but the majority of entries are composed by Williams.

Nah, what bugs me is this the neverending devotion some people have to all elements of that movie. If it was religion we were talking about, we'd call those people zealots. And the fact is that among casual Superman fans (or just non-fans), I can't blame them for having this attitude. They don't know anything else, mostly. But when even the (supposed) core fans take that attitude... eh, it just makes me wonder what (if any) comics they've been reading that make them think Donner is the end all, be all. Good movie, I dig it, it's one of my faves... but there's more to Superman than that.

I understand what you mean now. It's without a doubt my favourite version of Superman ever and I wasn't even born when they first emerged lol Matter of fact my parents were dating at the time, tried to see it and ended up having to go see John Travolta in "Grease" instead! lol Because the screenings for Superman were totally packed out. I get a thrill when the comics reference the films. To be honest though the Superman comics of the nineties had very little "Donner" in them. They seemed more like the tone of "Lois and Clark" to me. I know they later inspired that show. The Superman comics were in a bad state at the time of the first movie. I think interest was at an all time low so the movies brought them out of extinction. Something to be thankful for so I think it's okay to indulge in the past from time to time in the stories.

I do sort of like Lex Luthor as a known bad guy as seen in the movie because I found the whole "Lexcorp" stuff that came later on too similar to Marvel's The Kingpin/Wilson Fisk. I may be wrong about this but the idea of the Superman logo being a Kryptonian family crest (which Lois interprets as a literal "S") was also a fantastic and creative idea. It even helps to explain how characters like Supergirl can end up wearing the same symbol. Wasn't it Marlon Brando himself who suggested that? I think in the new one their even keeping that idea (Russel Crowe has been seen wearing one) whereas in "Lois and Clark" and John Bryne's "Man of Steel" Martha Kent designed it. While it's a sweet idea that she helps him make the suit, my issues were how could she design so snazzy a logo and costume when she's spent most of her life milking cows (although in Lois and Clark there is a sense she's a part time "artist" lol).

On the subject of Richard Donner while he made a terrific movie I have to say I have a dislike for his attitude toward the Salkinds (who I think are entitled to more credit than they have recieved). I'm sure they were pains in the asses during filming but we never got their side of the story until the 2006 dvd boxset. For me Iyla Salkind is the "father" of the Superman movies as it was his idea to adapt them at a time when the comic book movie genre was unheard of. I think his commentary tracks on the movies were hilarious! The fact they were putting their own money into them they had every right to be concerned about diminishing resources. I think at the end of the day it was merely a clashing of different methods of filmmaking rather than Donner claiming they had no real respect for Superman and it's potential.

[Silver Nemesis]

I think in the new one their even keeping that idea (Russel Crowe has been seen wearing one) whereas in "Lois and Clark" and John Bryne's "Man of Steel" Martha Kent designed it.

Just to clarify, Martha didn't actually design the 'S' shield in Lois & Clark. She did make Clark's costume for him, but the 'S' shield was already in his spaceship when he first arrived on Earth. Martha merely attached it to his suit. The series also showed Jor-El and Lara wearing the 'S' shield back on Krypton.

[Bobthegoon89]

I think in the new one their even keeping that idea (Russel Crowe has been seen wearing one) whereas in "Lois and Clark" and John Bryne's "Man of Steel" Martha Kent designed it.

Just to clarify, Martha didn't actually design the 'S' shield in Lois & Clark. She did make Clark's costume for him, but the 'S' shield was already in his spaceship when he first arrived on Earth. Martha merely attached it to his suit. The series also showed Jor-El and Lara wearing the 'S' shield back on Krypton.

Ah yes thanks Silver Nemesis! It was in the John Bryne comic were she designed the shield herself.