The Controversy

[Bobthegoon89]

If you love the Burton films as much as I do I advise you to stay away from discussing them on imdb. Seriously there are some very strange "fans" on there who will stop at nothing to destroy all trace of them. I'll try and have a friendly discussion about them and recieve a great swathe of abuse at liking them at all. It's amazing, upsetting, annoying and ultimately hilarious after a while. I cannot wait for the next Batman film to redress the balance so to speak so all the Nolan buffs have their own competition lol

The more, shall we say, devoted of those people really do come off like some kind of religious cult. A YouTube videocast guy received death threats just for saying he hadn't seen TDK yet (about a month after it came out). He wasn't being mean spirited, he just said he hadn't seen it yet and so they went off on him.

My own dad loved Adam West and I confess so do I! lol Obviously I prefer the darker type Batman but have no problem diving over both sides of the fence as it were. In fact I saw Adam West's Batman movie around the same time as Keaton's debut. To me I loved them both. My dad never had a problem with the darkness of Returns. I remember him loving the fact Penguin had a monocle and cigarrette holder (however briefly) that flashbacked to Burgess Meredith.

I like the West show but I freaking DESPISE the legacy it has left behind.

Oh jeez. Seriously? That just cheered me up reading that. I mean the madness of it. It got tiring today arguing with those fools on imdb. You try maturely getting your point across and they send a reply designed to annoy you with a witty pun. I myself didn't see the Dark Knight Rises until 3 weeks after it's release. I thought the "death threats" critics recieved about negatively reviewing the movie were insane. It also makes all fans look that mental when we all clearly are not lol I don't know how these fans can say it was a masterpiece though. I thought it was great and thoroughly enjoyed the surprises but...masterpiece?! Nah c'mon. I was slightly disappointed with Anne Hathaway's Catwoman too. I don't think she came anywhere close to Michelle Pffeifer. Not as interesting to watch and I felt her relationship with Batman wasn't developed as well as in Returns. I guess I'd be crucified for saying that on imdb (maybe here??? oops!) but those are my feelings.

Know what you mean about Adam West. There are some cringeworthy moments but it did also make some fantastic contributions to Batman as much as headaches. I can't wait for the thing to finally hit dvd. I hope there isn't a movement afoot to prevent it's release (as I've heard rumoured) as it is a television classic. Lots of shows around that time are out and I don't think their quite as deserving of a home video release.

[thecolorsblend]

It got tiring today arguing with those fools on imdb.

Encouraging you to stick to posting here rather than IMDB may seem self-serving but the truth is that I genuinely believe IMDB is the absolute bottom of the barrel when it comes to discussions on the Internet. Half of the posters there (at least for stuff in this genre) are 12 to 20 years old and lack perspective both in life and in this hobby for me to give two craps what they think. Sorry, but I don't have time to shoot the bull about Batman with some Emo McHipster douchebag who's read two trade paperbacks and seen Batman Begins 9 billion times. I don't need that imbecile to tell me what the comics are like. I'm not an expert on Batman comics (some posters around here easily blow me out of the water) but I've read them pretty consistently for over twenty friggin years.

I realize it's a soft, warm, happy, fuzzy thing to say that everybody has an opinion and all opinions are equally valid. Well, no. No, they're not. Some opinions are worth more than others. When it comes to this kind of thing, sorry, but IMDB boy isn't worth listening to. His existence isn't even worth noting.

That's how little regard I have for IMDB.

I was slightly disappointed with Anne Hathaway's Catwoman too. I don't think she came anywhere close to Michelle Pffeifer. Not as interesting to watch and I felt her relationship with Batman wasn't developed as well as in Returns. I guess I'd be crucified for saying that on imdb (maybe here??? oops!) but those are my feelings.

Ral and the rest of us value the concept of informed discourse. Some may disagree but I doubt you'll get pilloried for feeling that way around here.

Know what you mean about Adam West. There are some cringeworthy moments but it did also make some fantastic contributions to Batman as much as headaches.

To me, it's important to distinguish the TV show from the TV show's legacy. On it's own merits, there are lot of humorous bits, the sucker is more faithful to the comics of the time than it gets credit for and my reaction to it is that it's not a parody of Batman so much as a parody of mid-60's culture using Batman as the vehicle. When you think about it, that's actually a pretty big difference.

What bugs me and I imagine others is that... well, we're never going to live it down, let's face it. Comic book fans are going to be branded with POW BIFF ZAP forevermore. If it was ever going to fade away, it would have by now. Burton was the zeitgeist of Batman for a while. That's faded away. Schumacher (for better at first and for worse later) was then the zeitgeist of Batman. This too has faded away. Right now (and only for now), it's Chris Nolan. But the stigma of WHAP BAM still hangs in the air like a fart in a car.

If we fans can ever manage to separate "the Adam West TV show" from "the curse of the Adam West TV show" (and accept the latter is permanent), I think we'd be a lot more willing to see how much the show did really really well.

[GBglide]

I had one from Jurassic Park that after years in the cupboard it's artwork slowly withered away.

I went and looked at the BR cups. You wern't kidding about the withering.
I had the cups in a stack in a cabinet, the one on the left was exposed (bottom of the stack). Compare it to a more protected one.

[riddler]

Nolanites definitely have their own cult. There was also death threats levied against the critic who cost the dark knight a 100% review on rotten tomatoes. And how on earth is inception rated that high on the IMDB? I rented that for christmas with my sister, dad, and mother (and we all have different tasted in movies), I was the only one who sat through the entire thing.

[Bobthegoon89]

I had one from Jurassic Park that after years in the cupboard it's artwork slowly withered away.

I went and looked at the BR cups. You wern't kidding about the withering.
I had the cups in a stack in a cabinet, the one on the left was exposed (bottom of the stack). Compare it to a more protected one.

Hey that's one of my faves of the cups! Guess it was an unusual scene for them to do. Shame about the withering eh? I also love the Penguin's Duck Boat one. Can you imagine your local Mcdonalds in 1992 with these cups being used by the kiddies and those vicious Penguin illustrations in full eyesight? lol Boggles the mind.

[Bobthegoon89]

It got tiring today arguing with those fools on imdb.

Encouraging you to stick to posting here rather than IMDB may seem self-serving but the truth is that I genuinely believe IMDB is the absolute bottom of the barrel when it comes to discussions on the Internet. Half of the posters there (at least for stuff in this genre) are 12 to 20 years old and lack perspective both in life and in this hobby for me to give two craps what they think. Sorry, but I don't have time to shoot the bull about Batman with some Emo McHipster douchebag who's read two trade paperbacks and seen Batman Begins 9 billion times. I don't need that imbecile to tell me what the comics are like. I'm not an expert on Batman comics (some posters around here easily blow me out of the water) but I've read them pretty consistently for over twenty friggin years.

You've certainly convinced me mate this is the rightful place to post! May I say I'd loved your "2 craps what they think" line lol Cheered me up after the abuse that got on my mind recently. There is this appaling fan on imdb named Limited Vertigo who argues with everybody who prefers previous Batman films to Nolan's. He likes to pass off he's merely giving opposing opinions but really he is delib insulting people by mocking their intelligence and common sense. It's all on the Batman Returns forums. Some poor girl who is a fan has been getting tormented by him. Just reading it infuritates me lol

One bizaare theory some buffoons we're feauding about (which I may make another subject matter here) is whether you need a particular style to make a decent Batman film. They actually believed that only a realistic Batman film will now work....ever! lol I don't think that's how audiences reacted in the 90's. They seemed pretty happy with a fantastic style as much as realism. Just look at the 89 original. I feel that the newer movies are in fact going away more from Batman than previous entries ever did. I mean in terms of look mostly. Story and character wise things are fine. But I long for the day we can have Bat-like vehicles again. And I certainly miss the times when directors tried to make major villains as much like their comic counterparts as possible. I mean look at the Scarecrow. Great mask but jeez what's with the suit? I was worried the Joker would end up in an ordinary suit too but luckily they saw sense to give him the purple he rightfully needs.

[Bobthegoon89]

Nolanites definitely have their own cult. There was also death threats levied against the critic who cost the dark knight a 100% review on rotten tomatoes. And how on earth is inception rated that high on the IMDB? I rented that for christmas with my sister, dad, and mother (and we all have different tasted in movies), I was the only one who sat through the entire thing.

Ur telling me friend lol It's kinda scary. I geniuely thought for a sec there on imdb that every Batman fan in the world had taken leave of their senses in their backlash towards Michael Keaton and that I was the only one left who still cared lol

[riddler]

Nolanites definitely have their own cult. There was also death threats levied against the critic who cost the dark knight a 100% review on rotten tomatoes. And how on earth is inception rated that high on the IMDB? I rented that for christmas with my sister, dad, and mother (and we all have different tasted in movies), I was the only one who sat through the entire thing.

Ur telling me friend lol It's kinda scary. I geniuely thought for a sec there on imdb that every Batman fan in the world had taken leave of their senses in their backlash towards Michael Keaton and that I was the only one left who still cared lol

My theory is that they basically trolled anyone away from any board they flocked to. Any big superhero film since 2005; superman returns, all the avengers movies, spider-man, and the burton bat films. They're just so illogical; practically everyone cringed at the thought of Michael Keaton as Batman in 1988 and practically everyone thought Keaton as Batman was awesome by 1990. They also seem to be the only ones who deem danny elfman music to be terrible. I remember some of their anti-Burton arguments after batman begins
-Keaton did not throw enough batarangs (I don't know if bale threw any after Batman begins)
-Batman/Bruce wayne did not get enough screen time, they gave it all to the villains (Heath Ledger, Tom Hardy, JOSEPH GORDON LOVETT)
-burton did not follow the comics (bale drives 3 vehicles in his last 2 films and not a single one resembles anything batman rides in the comics)
-Burton had no business killing the joker or penguin (but Nolan killing Two face, Talia Al Ghul, and Bane is perfectly acceptable)
-the joker has a name and origin (remind me again who John Blake is?)

[Silver Nemesis]

Encouraging you to stick to posting here rather than IMDB may seem self-serving but the truth is that I genuinely believe IMDB is the absolute bottom of the barrel when it comes to discussions on the Internet. Half of the posters there (at least for stuff in this genre) are 12 to 20 years old and lack perspective both in life and in this hobby for me to give two craps what they think. Sorry, but I don't have time to shoot the bull about Batman with some Emo McHipster douchebag who's read two trade paperbacks and seen Batman Begins 9 billion times.

That's a savagely accurate description of about 85% of the Batman fans on the IMDb. I used to post there years ago. But I haven't done so since about 2009 or 2010. There's absolutely no point in arguing with those people.

I'm pretty sure there's only one or two of them at most anyway. The posting patterns are consistent with sock account activity: i.e., creating multiple accounts so you can back yourself up in a debate and make it look like you're speaking on behalf of a larger demographic. That's why whenever someone posts a lengthy tirade against one of Burton's films, it's almost invariably followed by another troll quoting them and writing "well said, so-and-so" or "great post! So-and-so gets it!" It's hard enough to imagine one person being sad enough to troll like that, let alone more than one.

These same people would frequently comment on how disappointed they were when Batman came out in 1989, and about how grateful they were to Christopher Nolan when in 2005 he made the Batman film they'd always wanted. But then they'd go and reveal that they watched Batman: The Animated Series as children, and thus couldn't possibly have known what adult comic fans wanted in 89. Most of them would reference a few graphic novels (usually ones written by Miller, Moore and Loeb, or ones mentioned in the Batman Begins promotional materials), as well as the animated series, and then act as though that made them an expert on the franchise.

I remember one guy literally describing his knowledge of Batman as "expert". And yet when I cited numerous Pre-Crisis story arcs as refutation of his claims, he had no idea what I was talking about. He resorted to using Wikipedia articles, and in some cases outright lying, to try and prove his point. In the end I had to provide links to scans to illustrate the factual inaccuracy of his claims, and he eventually conceded defeat. A few months later I happened to revisit the message board and saw that the same troll was arguing the same old argument, even though he'd already admitted he was wrong. I didn't bother posting there again after that.

I think Badass Digest critic Devin Faraci said it best when he wrote:

These people have tied their identities and self-worth into Nolan's Batfilms so strongly that the smallest slight feels like a deep, personal attack. These sad, mentally unhygienic people lash out with fury. It's ugly and sad and makes me ashamed to be a nerd, to share a pop culture space with these people.

http://badassdigest.com/2012/07/16/batman-fans-lose-their-minds-over-negative-dark-knight-rises-reviews/

It's no secret that film and TV show marketing divisions employ studio plants to hang out on popular message boards. I found an interesting blog entry by someone who worked on an online "promotion and response team" for the Sci-Fi Channel's Battlestar Galactica remake. He wrote that one of the methods they were instructed to use to promote enthusiasm for the new show involved undermining the fans' attachment to the original.

It was partly my job to circulate amongst the online communities, circa 2003, to convince a vocal online population of 40-something men that the Sci-Fi Channel interpretation was the last place that the Battlestar fans were ever going to get — the last opportunity — and that they would never get another go, unlike the Star Trek franchise, at reviving the campy 1978-1980 series with original cast.

http://chrisabraham.com/2009/04/13/overcoming-bad-online-influencers-for-battlestar/

It's not hard to imagine similar "promotion and response" teams being set up to rally support for Nolan's Batman trilogy. Especially when you consider that The Dark Knight had arguable the most sophisticated and successful viral marketing campaign in the history of film advertising. I don't mean to suggest that all the rabid fan boys are studio plants. But I wouldn't be surprised if some of the more belligerent fans – the ones who persist in muddying the waters and who are incapable of expressing their love for one film series without trashing another – were linked with the marketing campaign, if only in an amateur capacity. Or they could just be the "sad, mentally unhygienic" people Faraci describes.

Just to be clear, I've no problem with someone voicing a negative opinion on a film I like. Divergence of opinion can make for fascinating discussion. But if a person really hates a particular movie then they should move on once they've voiced their opinion. I can't fathom why anyone would loiter on the message board for a decades-old movie they profess to hate, day after day, month after month, year after year, just to post negative comments in every single thread. I always avoided insulting people who do that, because in many cases I suspect there may be a delicate, possibly health-related, reason why they compulsively trash something the way they do, and over such a prolonged period of time.

It's interesting to note that no such people attempt to troll our site. Surely, as a site that prides itself on being receptive to all eras of Batman, we are one of the most obvious targets. I attribute the absence of trolls to two main factors:

1) Batman Online permits only one account per user, so they can't create sock accounts to back themselves up in debates. They have to stand alone against their enemy, and their arguments have to stand up against logic. Self-congratulatory "so-and-so gets it" posts aren't enough to win a debate on this site.

2) The users on this site know their stuff. Everyone here seems to have a particular area of interest/expertise relating to the franchise, and collectively I think we're one of the most well informed fan communities on the web. IMDb users are easy prey because most of them are only familiar with the movies. But if a troll came here touting their comic "expertise" then he or she would be walking into the lion's den.

At the end of the day, it's not worth getting upset over trolls. If they're determined to dwell on negativity and occupy their minds with things they hate, then that's they're problem. And the only people who'll suffer in the long run are themselves. What's so nice about this site is that it's a genuinely friendly, tolerant fan community where anyone is welcome to join and post their opinion without fear of being insulted or bullied. It's an island of civilised discourse in a sea of petulant bickering. And that's why I hang my hat/cowl here.

[riddler]

To back up the age thing, I looked at the breakdown of ratings for some of Chris Nolans last 5 films

the dark knight rises: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1345836/ratings
inception; http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1375666/ratings
the dark knight: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0468569/ratings
the prestige; http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0482571/ratings
batman begins: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0372784/ratings

notice a pattern here? Each and every one the highest rating by age interval is the under 18 group and declines with each subsequent age interval. They are all much lower among the top 1000 votes and to add to Silver Nemesis point, the top 1000 voters are probably not these sock accounters

to break it down further here's the dark knight rises ratings for people under the age of 18: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1345836/ratings-age_1  66.8% or slightly more than two thirds of people under the age of 18 voted it a 10? if you're wondering only 21% of the top 1000 voters gave it a 10

now check out the burton films
batman: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096895/ratings ratings pretty standard across the board between 7.4 and 7.9, 12% of the top 1000 voters giving it a ten compared to 14% of under 18 users
batman returns: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0103776/ratings slightly more of a deviation of ratings but the top 1000 voters gave it a 6.9 rating compared to its total rating of 7.0 and under 18 giving it 7.2. 11% of under 18 voters gave it a ten compared to 10% of top 1000 voters