what kind of film should the next one be? (TDKR spoilers)

[riddler]

There are some decent stories with Batman later in his career, wouldnt be too much of a stretch to do a '20 years later' scenario. Even a sequel taking place after a few years may work. Keaton is aging but they could cleverly write that in on his life taking a toll, Michelle Pfeiffer still looks great after all those years.

Part of me would love for Burton to come back. But another part of me thinks that because we've seen what Burton can do (which was amazing), other filmmakers should have a shot.

Burton actually did want the first batman film to be one of the 'end of career' stories but was pressured into making it into more of an early one.

[The Dark Knight]

I'd really like to see the next series be an established world, where Batman and the villains have already met and know each other.

[BatmAngelus]

^Agreed.

And I know that Nolan had the right to end The Dark Knight Rises however the heck he wanted to, but I wish it hadn't been an "End of Batman" movie.

Part of that is because I found all of those elements to be sloppily handled in the film.  But another part of it is because it would've been easier for the franchise's future if Bruce had stayed as Batman at the end.  Like the Burton-to-Schumacher transition or the Bond films, they could've used the Nolan films as a vague history, built off of an established Batman with established villains, and developed things from there in the next series of movies.  You could bring back Scarecrow with the understanding that he and Batman fought before. 

They could still do this for the reboot, I just think it'd have been an easier sell if The Dark Knight Rises wasn't about the end of his career.

[riddler]

^Agreed.

And I know that Nolan had the right to end The Dark Knight Rises however the heck he wanted to, but I wish it hadn't been an "End of Batman" movie.

Part of that is because I found all of those elements to be sloppily handled in the film.  But another part of it is because it would've been easier for the franchise's future if Bruce had stayed as Batman at the end.  Like the Burton-to-Schumacher transition or the Bond films, they could've used the Nolan films as a vague history, built off of an established Batman with established villains, and developed things from there in the next series of movies.  You could bring back Scarecrow with the understanding that he and Batman fought before. 

They could still do this for the reboot, I just think it'd have been an easier sell if The Dark Knight Rises wasn't about the end of his career.

The other tough thing is that this entir series practically maps out his entire career aside from him fighting the mobs and escaped lunatics for a year between begins and the dark knight. So while you could easily put an interquel between any of the Burton/Schumacher films, there's no room in the Nolan films.

[thecolorsblend]

And I know that Nolan had the right to end The Dark Knight Rises however the heck he wanted to, but I wish it hadn't been an "End of Batman" movie.

Part of that is because I found all of those elements to be sloppily handled in the film.  But another part of it is because it would've been easier for the franchise's future if Bruce had stayed as Batman at the end.  Like the Burton-to-Schumacher transition or the Bond films, they could've used the Nolan films as a vague history, built off of an established Batman with established villains, and developed things from there in the next series of movies.  You could bring back Scarecrow with the understanding that he and Batman fought before. 

They could still do this for the reboot, I just think it'd have been an easier sell if The Dark Knight Rises wasn't about the end of his career.

I see your point but what TDKRises allows is a clean (if not page one) reboot. The Nolan canon is closed now. So anything that comes next will be separate from it, both by design and by necessity. Had TDKRises taken place a year'ish after TDK and ended with Bruce sticking around as Batman, whatever comes next could maybe kinda sorta halfway a little be tied in to the Nolanverse. Given my distaste for the Nolanverse, that suits my agenda not at all. But now there's really no choice but a reboot since I don't think anybody except the Chris Nolan true believers (and only some of them) care to see the adventures of John Blake.

[BatmAngelus]

^ That's very true and honestly, I hope for a clean slate, too.

I guess, in general, I'd like to avoid another origin reboot, like they just did with Spider-Man and soon, Superman.  Batman Begins isn't perfect, but I don't have much desire to see the origin redone and I feel like audiences are feeling origin-story-fatigue at this point. 

Ending the Nolan series with Bruce still as Batman would've increased the chances of the next movie avoiding the origin retelling in my book (though to be fair, Spider-Man 3 and Superman Returns didn't feature the end of either superhero and they still got their origins redone), but as you said, the ending does give us more of a clean slate that could be more beneficial anyway.

[thecolorsblend]

Yep. I understand and I even agree but I think we don't have anything to worry about. Spider-Man and Superman are special cases. Spider-Man 3 wasn't that long ago. Redoing the origin was a statement that Webb wasn't following the Raimi canon without having to put up a title card saying "we're not following the Raimi canon".

With Superman, people have this strange perception that the origin story has been done to death but it really hasn't. The last time wide audiences saw Superman's origin was 1978. L&C, STAS, Smallville and anything else didn't have the widespread audiences that STM did. It makes sense to give modern audiences a Superman origin as an anchor point for whatever comes next.

Batman? He doesn't have that problem. Wide audiences saw the Nolan Batman's story begin in 2005 and end in 2012. They don't need a new origin to know that the reboot is a reboot. Simply showing a 20-something Bruce Wayne wearing a Batman uniform that looks nothing at all like Nolan's outfit is all most people will need. I doubt WB will bother redoing the origin. There's just no percentage in it.

[The Dark Knight]

I see your point but what TDKRises allows is a clean (if not page one) reboot. The Nolan canon is closed now. So anything that comes next will be separate from it, both by design and by necessity. Had TDKRises taken place a year'ish after TDK and ended with Bruce sticking around as Batman, whatever comes next could maybe kinda sorta halfway a little be tied in to the Nolanverse. Given my distaste for the Nolanverse, that suits my agenda not at all. But now there's really no choice but a reboot since I don't think anybody except the Chris Nolan true believers (and only some of them) care to see the adventures of John Blake.

Agreed. The Nolanverse having an end is the best way to seal it off and have it be its own thing. For Nolan Batman fans, even though they're not going to see this world expanded, the integrity of that universe is protected. And for a reboot universe, it's clean and clear.

[greggbray]

^Agreed.

And I know that Nolan had the right to end The Dark Knight Rises however the heck he wanted to, but I wish it hadn't been an "End of Batman" movie.

Part of that is because I found all of those elements to be sloppily handled in the film.  But another part of it is because it would've been easier for the franchise's future if Bruce had stayed as Batman at the end.  Like the Burton-to-Schumacher transition or the Bond films, they could've used the Nolan films as a vague history, built off of an established Batman with established villains, and developed things from there in the next series of movies.  You could bring back Scarecrow with the understanding that he and Batman fought before.

They could still do this for the reboot, I just think it'd have been an easier sell if The Dark Knight Rises wasn't about the end of his career.

Agreed.  Ah, what's done is done.

For the next series, I'd like a few things.

First: Batman in his third year.  He's met the villains.  He's met the cops.  The world is established.  And in this world, we're allowed to have (to use Dennis O'Neil's words) magic realism.  If Ra's is in the film, so is the Lazarus Pit.  Mr. Freeze exists in it.  So does Clayface, Man-Bat, and villains who seem to come out of nowhere.

I would like the story to be a Hush-esque mystery (or perhaps Prey, I don't mean a direct reference to Hush per se) where there are multiple villains running around. I'd like it to be a mystery.  Something strange happens.  Police are baffled.  Batman called in.  Lots of crime scene analysis and work at the Bat-cave.

Finally: Dick Grayson. I'd like the next story to be the story of Batman: Mentor.  We have seen so many aspects of Batman brought to the silver screen in a satisfying way, but we haven not yet really seen Batman: Mentor.  Dick Grayson was given some advice in Batman Forever, and his costume was created off-screen.  It was a bit rushed for the third act. 

I've never heard of John Blake.  Telling a man that he needs a mask and showing him the bat cave does not give him the lifetime of training Batman supposedly had.  I need to see some detail here.  Bring the character to the screen--play him straight.  As much as I love some of the 60s series, it took years for an audience to recognize Batman as a dark and serious character.  Robin is *still* not there yet.  Time to bring him there. 

[thecolorsblend]

The only issue I see with an 11 or 12 yr old Robin is basically child endangerment. It plays in the comics but bringing a kid into those kinds of dangerous situations... not that I don't like the tone and nature of comics, I do, but I haven't figured out a way to do a young Robin without making Batman look completely reckless and irresponsible.