Hathaway's Selina Kyle/Catwoman (SPOILERS)

[The Laughing Fish]

Anne Hathaway's performance as Catwoman was one of the few good things about this movie/trilogy, and I wish she was in the DCEU instead. I think she would've been a better fit facing off Batfleck, and mingle well with Margot Robbie's Harley.

If I had to change one thing about her character in this movie though, I'd get rid of the whole Clean Slate angle, and focus more about her revolt against the rich. The problem with the Clean Slate is it makes her a bit of a sociopath, because she doesn't care who she hurts as long as she gets what she wants. This doesn't really gel well for the rest of her characterisation in the movie, e.g. looking guilty while visiting a ransacked family home. It would've made more sense if she was a misguided vigilante who championed herself to protect the poor, who then incorrectly aligned herself with the League of Shadows because she believed she was serving a great cause.

Off-topic: it makes me laugh that some people criticised how "stupid" Batman was for being manipulated by Lex Luthor into fighting Superman in BvS, and claim Batman should've been smarter than that. They disregard that Batman experienced pain and tragedy in his twenty-year crime-fighting career as well as how the destruction unfolding in Metropolis influenced his prejudice over Superman. Any genuine flaw is dismissed, nor does the character learning from his mistake and restore his faith in humanity get acknowledged as a positive plot point.

Why am I bringing this up? Because in this movie, Batman falls for Catwoman's trap and finds himself caged with Bane. This is despite the fact that Batman knows she is a criminal and can't be trusted - not to mention the fact that he was himself VICTIMISED by her on two occasions. And he still trusts her for no reason, other than pure plot contrivance. But if you bring this up to some fans, they'll say "Batman's blind trust gives him a flaw".

What an absolute joke.

[thecolorsblend]

Fair points. When Batman gives her the bat-pod near the end of the movie, I'm unsure if Nolan wants us to see that as Selina's moment of redemption... or if we're supposed to expect betrayal and then be surprised when she follows through on her word all the way to the end.

Realistically though, as you say, Batman has precisely zero reason to trust her and the audience doesn't have much more either. Admittedly, she did say "This used to be a family's house" or some such but it's a kind of weak protest. I dunno, that's in the eye of the beholder.

But stealing the pearls, stealing Wayne's fingerprints and then selling him out to Bane are less excusable.

In fact, none of the women in TDKRises are really admirable.

[Travesty]

Yeah, it's one thing about this movie that I don't understand. So he meets Talia, sleeps with her, and then just hands over the nuke to her? Also, Selina steals his mother's pearls, gives his fingerprints to Bane, which bankrupts him, then she sells him out to Bane, which he then gets his back broken...and the first thing Bruce does when he gets back to Gotham, is talk to Selina. lolwut?

So Gotham is held hostage because Bruce was too stupid to give a nuke over to someone he just slept with, and then his back is broken, because he keeps trusting a known burglar who keeps screwing him over. It just makes no sense to me. But what do I know, apparently ropes and crackers can fix a broken back, while also making you invulnerable to nuclear bombs.

[Dagenspear]

Yeah, it's one thing about this movie that I don't understand. So he meets Talia, sleeps with her, and then just hands over the nuke to her? Also, Selina steals his mother's pearls, gives his fingerprints to Bane, which bankrupts him, then she sells him out to Bane, which he then gets his back broken...and the first thing Bruce does when he gets back to Gotham, is talk to Selina. lolwut?

So Gotham is held hostage because Bruce was too stupid to give a nuke over to someone he just slept with, and then his back is broken, because he keeps trusting a known burglar who keeps screwing him over. It just makes no sense to me. But what do I know, apparently ropes and crackers can fix a broken back, while also making you invulnerable to nuclear bombs.

He doesn't sleep with her until after he gives her Wayne Enterprises and he has known her for awhile at the start of the movie. Him giving her the reactor is actually based on the fact that he's pressed and can't take the chance that Dagget gets it. Talia even says that he's not really trusting her and just has no choice. Same with Selina. She's literally the only other ally he can get at the time, besides Blake. And Selina, being a criminal, can infiltrate Bane's group and help him escape with Fox.

He doesn't trust her perse, but at least counts on her being self serving enough to want to save her own life, a fact she tells him when she betrays him to Bane in the sewer. He believes there's more to her, but doesn't count on her to be more. Though he could believe there's more to her based on the fact that she saves a kid and she feels the need to justify why she betrayed him in the sewer scene, something she wouldn't necessarily do if she didn't care in some way. But that's just my perception of the situation.

The real question is: Why did Bruce take the time to shave? lol. Have a very great day!

God bless you all!

[The Dark Knight]

Yeah, it's one thing about this movie that I don't understand. So he meets Talia, sleeps with her, and then just hands over the nuke to her? Also, Selina steals his mother's pearls, gives his fingerprints to Bane, which bankrupts him, then she sells him out to Bane, which he then gets his back broken...and the first thing Bruce does when he gets back to Gotham, is talk to Selina. lolwut?

So Gotham is held hostage because Bruce was too stupid to give a nuke over to someone he just slept with, and then his back is broken, because he keeps trusting a known burglar who keeps screwing him over. It just makes no sense to me. But what do I know, apparently ropes and crackers can fix a broken back, while also making you invulnerable to nuclear bombs.

TDK Rises has a couple of good scenes, don't get me wrong. But the whole doesn't make sense.

Take the opening plane hijacking for example. Bane went to a lot of trouble for nothing. Think about it.

Then there's the stock market sequence:
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/07/banes-plan-to-bankrupt-batman-doesnt-make-any-sense/260191/

The plot relies on a lot of coincidences. It relies on Bruce befriending Miranda and telling her about the reactor....and then giving her access. If he said NOTHING, like I think comic Bruce would, Bane's plan is over. I'm positive Bane/Daggett wouldn't have known about this area otherwise. And Bane's milita takeover of Gotham plot? That would be over as well, because Miranda wouldn't know about the stash of Tumblers hidden above the sewers.

Bane's big plot about telling the truth about Harvey eventuated because of pure luck. Gordon just happened to be captured by Bane's men, and Gordon just so happened to have a confession letter in his pocket. Which Bane later reads out, and without solid proof, everyone believes it.

Batman and Catwoman have a rocky relationship at times in the comics, but really, what did Selina do to show Bruce she was worth chasing romantically? She steals his necklace, steals his car and then sells him out to Bane to get bashed to near death. Bruce is a fool and he got played. Selina's reward for this is to get her criminal record cleared. Who wouldn't retire with this guy? He's a jackass who pays for everything and ignores all your bad deeds. She's laughing.

[The Laughing Fish]

TDK Rises has a couple of good scenes, don't get me wrong. But the whole doesn't make sense.

You just don't understand the complexity and genius by Christopher Nolan. In Nolan we trust!

I'll say it again, it's absolutely laughable that Snyder gets condemned for a lot of things that Nolan gets a pass for. Bane and Joker's motives are even more nonsensical and contrived than Lex Luthor's plans in BvS. Nolan must have seriously good connections in the entertainment industry to get away with this sh*t, because anybody else would've been condemned for it. Hé's what the MCU is becoming nowadays, sacrosanct.

[thecolorsblend]

I can't dispute any of these flaws.

But Zimmer's work really is stunning in TDKRises.

And Nolan gave Batman an ending. Some like that ending, others don't like it. But dammit, he has an ending now. And that counts for a lot with me.

[The Dark Knight]

I'm going to be The Dark Nice for a moment to elaborate on those good scenes I spoke about.

1. Bane v Batman in the sewer

It's not as brutal as I would've hoped, but nonetheless, Batman gets his ass kicked for the first real time in live action. Sure, B89 had Ray Charles, but here Batman lost. For that fact alone I have to give the sequence credit. The flowing water and walkways provided an aesthetically pleasing environment.

2. Batman farewells Gordon and flies away with the bomb

It's a short sequence but it delivers the goods. I love that Batman reveals his identity to Gordon. It's an action that screams 'this is the end'. It's a type of sequence you would expect to see in a final film in a trilogy. I'm guessing Batman bailed from The Bat way before the detonation, perhaps causing the explosion to cover his ejection. That's my head canon anyway.

3. Batman's return

It's a decent chase sequence and honestly, it's pure cinema. Just like the Blues Brothers, Batman stares down the entire police force and still manages to escape against all odds. I dig the idea that Batman had The Bat hidden in a back alley like that. It's something I can imagine the comic book incarnation doing. He usually always has a backup plan. Plus, I love that small scene when he returns to the batcave.

4. Alfred reveals the truth about Rachel

It's a small scene, but an important one in the context of the trilogy. Bale and Caine knock it out of the park.

5. Bruce climbs from the pit

As a standalone sequence it's rather good. The music is spot on and visually gives the film it's title.

Other mentions go to Batman punching Bane's mask during the finale. I would've preferred that to be Bane's real defeat though as opposed to Catwoman saving the day, with Batman on his knees and seconds from death. But oh well.

So there's a bit I actually like about the film. It's just that the whole piece doesn't go together as I think it should.

[thecolorsblend]

Those things are awesome.

I really enjoy the first hour or so of the movie before Batman returns. Something about the archetype of the hero who has been beaten down by life or circumstance plays for me. I guess it goes back to Ben Kenobi in Star Wars '77. "I was once a Jedi Knight". It's always welcome in my book.

I dig the point/counterpoint of Batman and Bane having cavernous underground hideouts where water plays a major role in the design and aesthetics. They're more alike than they may realize. Or be comfortable with.

The first fight plays out without music and is that extra bit more brutal because of it. It might've been more brutal if Batman had bled from his injuries during the fight. Still, it says a lot that Batman is the toughest guy around... and yet, Bane's minions didn't lift a finger to help him with the fight because they knew he had this.

[The Laughing Fish]

3. Batman's return

It's a decent chase sequence and honestly, it's pure cinema. Just like the Blues Brothers, Batman stares down the entire police force and still manages to escape against all odds. I dig the idea that Batman had The Bat hidden in a back alley like that. It's something I can imagine the comic book incarnation doing. He usually always has a backup plan. Plus, I love that small scene when he returns to the batcave.

I disagree. I thought that chase scene was sh*thouse, and easily the worst out of all the chase sequences in the series. Batman's first return, and it's an unexciting, impotent display which he achieves nothing but letting Bane escape and divert all the cops attention. The chase scene with the bomb in the end was much better.

As the for the Bane fight? Put it this way, I was actually cheering on Bane for the whole time. That's how much I hated Batman in these movies. The only good guy in this movie who deserved any sympathy was Blake, in my opinion. Poor bastard caught in the middle of this mess.