John Blake (SPOILERS)

Started by Silver Nemesis, Sun, 22 Jul 2012, 10:58

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I must be honest I've never cared personally for the other DC characters outside Batman and Superman. The recent Green Lantern movie was proof to me they can't work with an audience as well as Bruce and Clark or even the Marvel characters. I worry about the future of Batman's movie universe now being contamidated by "outsiders". I'd so hate to see the badly miscast, joke laden irritant that is Ryan Reynold's Green Lantern pop up for a Gotham City cameo to plug a JLA movie. I want it to remain it's own universe as it's always been since 1989.

Batman is strong enough in his own series of movies. Why team him with publicly unknown "B-listers"? Especially at a time when he's a box office smash again. Same with Superman, although the Man of Steel needs to make it big again in his next upcoming solo film. 

Fans have often complained that Warners focusses too much on either Batman and Superman and none of DC's other heroes. I don't think that's fair. The public wants and loves more Batman movies (Bale is proof there). Why should they be sacrificed to pool resources into a Wonder Woman or Atom film nobody cares about? And for me this JLA idea is merely a barricade from another proper Batman film I'm dying more to see.

Wed, 5 Dec 2012, 22:09 #31 Last Edit: Wed, 5 Dec 2012, 22:13 by SilentEnigma
Prepare for something that might sound way off, but here's my prime problem with the whole JLA concept.

For me, Batman loses his "power" when seen in daytime, surrounded by superpowered characters, in pristine sci-fi sets. What is once mythical and strikes fear in Gotham City, a setting of urban decay of which Batman is an organic part, is also rather ridiculously theatrical in daytime, when larger threats than madmen, psychotic killers, or the mob, are involved. Batman makes sense (in a pulp/comic book way) when he acts in the semi-fantastical cityscape called Gotham City.

Outside of that, what is Batman supposed to be? The brains of the operation, as has been pointed out, or the Nick Fury character, as has been argued? The "most dangerous man on earth" that helps a lot with his intellect and his money? If so, why does he have to wear that theatrical Bat-suit in the first place? He would be better off if for JLA he simply renamed himself as Tek Knight and wore a technology-based suit similar to Iron Man's that focused on function and not theatrics.

Quote from: SilentEnigma on Wed,  5 Dec  2012, 22:09
Prepare for something that might sound way off, but here's my prime problem with the whole JLA concept.

For me, Batman loses his "power" when seen in daytime, surrounded by superpowered characters, in pristine sci-fi sets. What is once mythical and strikes fear in Gotham City, a setting of urban decay of which Batman is an organic part, is also rather ridiculously theatrical in daytime, when larger threats than madmen, psychotic killers, or the mob, are involved. Batman makes sense (in a pulp/comic book way) when he acts in the semi-fantastical cityscape called Gotham City.

Outside of that, what is Batman supposed to be? The brains of the operation, as has been pointed out, or the Nick Fury character, as has been argued? The "most dangerous man on earth" that helps a lot with his intellect and his money? If so, why does he have to wear that theatrical Bat-suit in the first place? He would be better off if for JLA he simply renamed himself as Tek Knight and wore a technology-based suit similar to Iron Man's that focused on function and not theatrics.

Completely agree on everything you wrote there, buddy !
"Bats frighten me. It's time my enemies shared my dread."

Sun, 16 Dec 2012, 05:02 #33 Last Edit: Sun, 16 Dec 2012, 05:53 by BatmAngelus
Was I the only one who thought this was what was going to be revealed when Blake said "We've met before.  A long time ago.." ?


QuoteIt's funny how Blake kills those cement truck guys and throws away his gun, seemingly making a choice not to use it any more, disgusted with his actions.

Soon after he's charging the hospital with a shotgun...
In hindsight, I think it would've been cool if Blake had used a police baton to defend himself and beat the cement truck guys- demonstrating martial arts skills (that would make it more believable for us to buy him adopting the mantle at the end) as well as echoing the club-type weapons that Grayson/Nightwing uses.
That awkward moment when you remember the only Batman who's never killed is George Clooney...

Quote from: SilentEnigma on Wed,  5 Dec  2012, 22:09Prepare for something that might sound way off, but here's my prime problem with the whole JLA concept.

For me, Batman loses his "power" when seen in daytime, surrounded by superpowered characters, in pristine sci-fi sets. What is once mythical and strikes fear in Gotham City, a setting of urban decay of which Batman is an organic part, is also rather ridiculously theatrical in daytime, when larger threats than madmen, psychotic killers, or the mob, are involved. Batman makes sense (in a pulp/comic book way) when he acts in the semi-fantastical cityscape called Gotham City.

Outside of that, what is Batman supposed to be? The brains of the operation, as has been pointed out, or the Nick Fury character, as has been argued? The "most dangerous man on earth" that helps a lot with his intellect and his money? If so, why does he have to wear that theatrical Bat-suit in the first place? He would be better off if for JLA he simply renamed himself as Tek Knight and wore a technology-based suit similar to Iron Man's that focused on function and not theatrics.
Well, the entire conceit of the thing is that it's all of DC's heavies on a team together. As you say, what makes Batman tick as a standalone character can't easily be applied to Batman as a member of a team. So rather than try to force something that doesn't work, simply come up with a rationale for Batman to function as a team member.

For example, there's a tendency to believe that Batman isn't a joiner. That has merit for some but I don't for one moment think Batman would be entirely comfortable with the existence of a group like the JLA without there being some kind of oversight. That's a lot of raw firepower under one roof. My justification for him on the team would be that Batman would join, invited or not, just to keep an eye on them. That's a long way off from posing for press photos in front of the Hall of Justice at three in the afternoon.

Audiences clearly wanted a shared universe. That's not saying they want a live action version of the Superfriends but it has to be recognized that this is where the winds are blowing. For those put off by Batman sharing the stage with anybody, there are literally hundreds of hours of film and animation where he's the only game in town. Couple that with the fact that Batman has survived all these decades by being so malleable and I really don't understand why some people have this militant opposition to Batman in a JLA movie. Even if the end product sucks, he'll survive.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 16 Dec  2012, 08:02
Quote from: SilentEnigma on Wed,  5 Dec  2012, 22:09My justification for him on the team would be that Batman would join, invited or not, just to keep an eye on them. That's a long way off from posing for press photos in front of the Hall of Justice at three in the afternoon.

That's alright with me ! Great idea !
"Bats frighten me. It's time my enemies shared my dread."

If a JLA film happens, it can aid Batman's characterisation. I prefer the loner Batman and that could remain true in a group setting. People know what it feels like. You're at a function or out somewhere with people you don't know or don't like and as a result say virtually nothing. You stand out because of it. Batman would be the same. He's the only non powered person in the room but that brings other unique aspects to the table. The human perspective. Keeping his eyes on them. This picture below captures what I mean:


Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sun, 16 Dec  2012, 23:57
If a JLA film happens, it can aid Batman's characterisation. I prefer the loner Batman and that could remain true in a group setting. People know what it feels like. You're at a function or out somewhere with people you don't know or don't like and as a result say virtually nothing. You stand out because of it. Batman would be the same. He's the only non powered person in the room but that brings other unique aspects to the table. The human perspective. Keeping his eyes on them. This picture below captures what I mean:



That's exactly what I think the approach to the JLA when it comes to the Batman should be.
"Bats frighten me. It's time my enemies shared my dread."

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 16 Dec  2012, 08:02
Audiences clearly wanted a shared universe. That's not saying they want a live action version of the Superfriends but it has to be recognized that this is where the winds are blowing. For those put off by Batman sharing the stage with anybody, there are literally hundreds of hours of film and animation where he's the only game in town. Couple that with the fact that Batman has survived all these decades by being so malleable and I really don't understand why some people have this militant opposition to Batman in a JLA movie. Even if the end product sucks, he'll survive.

Agreed. My concern, if any, with DC going full speed ahead with a JL movie is the effect this can have on the rest of the DCU/MOS sequels (if it blows, we may never see Flash or WW again) But Batman will be fine. We've had dark and gothic, we've had "realistic", let's give "comic book" a chance.

Wed, 19 Dec 2012, 17:42 #39 Last Edit: Wed, 19 Dec 2012, 17:44 by SilentEnigma
colors, TDK

Good points, your posts are always a great read. My primary problem isn't that Batman wouldn't want to work with JLA, i.e. that he's not a joiner (it would make sense for him to want to keep an eye on them), but aesthetical, as a fan and a viewer. It's the mere fact of Batman co-existing with this colorful superpowered universe that never sit right with me (for the record, I like Superman). In the comics, in certain cases where appearances of the DCU really work in the story's favour (like, say, in Miller's TDKR and anything illustrated by Alex Ross), I'm fine with it. As long as the bulk of Batman's own stories are Gotham-centric (as is the case, really), the "existence" of the DCU, the aliens, Darkseid, all this can be easily ignored. A live action film, however, that is also intented as Batman's "re-introduction", is a different thing altogether.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sun, 16 Dec  2012, 23:57
If a JLA film happens, it can aid Batman's characterisation. I prefer the loner Batman and that could remain true in a group setting. People know what it feels like. You're at a function or out somewhere with people you don't know or don't like and as a result say virtually nothing. You stand out because of it. Batman would be the same. He's the only non powered person in the room but that brings other unique aspects to the table. The human perspective. Keeping his eyes on them. This picture below captures what I mean:



This encapsulates Batman