Batman Returns underrated?

[Dark Knight Detective]

The thing you said about people saying that Forever is better than Returns is something I rarely hear. They always say it's as bad as B & R when it's not. Silly? Yes. Mainstream? Exactly. A waste of film production? No. It still has some dark qualities to it. Now as for the Rocky series, I enjoyed 4 the most.

[thecolorsblend]

The thing you said about people saying that Forever is better than Returns is something I rarely hear.

I've heard it a few times.  "Yeah, it was sorta goofy but ANYTHING is better than Batman Returns, omgwtf".  Granted, it's from more casual moviegoers but if you hang out on BOF long enough, you'll eventually find this one poster (whose name escapes me) who prefers BF over either Burton flick.  Maybe even more than Nolan's stuff too.  Weird dude...

Now as for the Rocky series, I enjoyed 4 the most.

I'm a Rocky III man, myself.  It had unsung pathos to it.  Rocky was at the top of his game and was defeated by an upstart.  He lost.  He had to spend the rest of the movie picking up the pieces and putting his life back together.  What happened in the ring was a microcosm of what he'd allowed his life to become.  Nothing against Rocky IV (which was good) but Rocky III moves me to this day.

Cripes, sometimes I kinda feel sorry for Stallone.  I think he's a better actor than he's given credit for because of the glut of mindless action films (or mindless films in general) that he's made over the years and (let's face it) his voice and demeanor.

[david icke]

I have to say right off that I prefer BF to BR, maybe even to Batman89, some of Batman drags for me sorry to say, and I prefer Kilmer to Keaton.
I was on cloud 9 when i exited the theatre after seeing Batman Returns, finally seeing Batman up on the rooftops fighting another supervillan, I thought Catwoamn was done perfect, still do.
Nowadays the Penguin kind of grates on me, bit too disgusting and evil, thereby making him a little one note, like was said earlier by raleagh. I do appreciate DeVito's performance though, I always forget it's him under there.
I do still like a lot of it though and always watch it when it's on tv. There is a major gap of non-Batman appearance though, apart from the little drive by the libarary there's about 50mins between his 1st appearance and his 2nd. That's another problem I had with Batman89, as much as I enjoyed the Joker stuff , there was too much time between Batman appearances. I think that's why I got a bigger kick out of BF, lots of BM and Robin's origin was well done.
Chris Walken was good in BR but part of me wishes he'd been used as a top tier classic Bat-villan at some point in the series. He would've made a good Ras al ghul, Scarecrow, Mad hatter, MrFreeze, any number of villans.

[Paul (ral)]

Nowadays the Penguin kind of grates on me, bit too disgusting and evil, thereby making him a little one note, like was said earlier by raleagh.

I don't think of the character as one note. I feel that Burton and co were making a sympathic character but they did forsake a little of that - due to Tim's sense of humour and to make him seem more evil.

[Dark Knight Detective]

"...as much as I enjoyed the Joker stuff , there was too much time between Batman appearances."

Burton wanted the Batman to be mysterious. I'd rather have that than to be spoon-fed on what Batman is doing. An example would be from the scene in BATMAN when he crashes through the glass in the museum. He just came out of nowhere w/ that. That's what makes it phenomenal.

[david icke]

Nowadays the Penguin kind of grates on me, bit too disgusting and evil, thereby making him a little one note, like was said earlier by raleagh.

I don't think of the character as one note. I feel that Burton and co were making a sympathic character but they did forsake a little of that - due to Tim's sense of humour and to make him seem more evil.

Oh ok, sorry, I was just referring to you saying he was 'pure evil, and not a lot of people are like that'(or words to that effect).
They did start off making him sympathetic but any and all sympathy was lost on me as you got to see more of the character.

[david icke]

"...as much as I enjoyed the Joker stuff , there was too much time between Batman appearances."

Burton wanted the Batman to be mysterious. I'd rather have that than to be spoon-fed on what Batman is doing. An example would be from the scene in BATMAN when he crashes through the glass in the museum. He just came out of nowhere w/ that. That's what makes it phenomenal.

Mysterious I have no problem with, but in a movie called 'Batman' I expected to see more of Batman.  The museum sequence is great, all the way to the end when he does whatever he does under that cape to Vicki, we had a good dose of Batman there. In fact, the run to the Batcave is one of my fav scenes out of any movie, my fav Batmobile scene, and I love the Tumbler stuff in Nolans.
It's just that we get so much Joker and so much Bruce/Vicki there's a derth of Batman between Axis chemicals and the museum scene, after all BM's 1st scene was only a minute or two long. Hey, I'd been waiting all my life for a serious Batman movie, I didn't want to wait any longer seeing him in action during the movie.
I realise Burton would have been holding him back for full effect, but one more scene with him during that gap would've been more to my liking.

[Paul (ral)]

I realise Burton would have been holding him back for full effect, but one more scene with him during that gap would've been more to my liking.

I often thought that it might have been a good idea to have the Nick and Eddie stuff after the Axis bust. It would establish that time has passed after Axis and a relationship has grown between Bruce and Vicki - while at the same time giving us more of Batman in action.

And I would also have a scene at the start with the cops cleaning up after Batman - so we have the presence of Batman from the beginning.

[batass4880]

I realise Burton would have been holding him back for full effect, but one more scene with him during that gap would've been more to my liking.

I often thought that it might have been a good idea to have the Nick and Eddie stuff after the Axis bust. It would establish that time has passed after Axis and a relationship has grown between Bruce and Vicki - while at the same time giving us more of Batman in action.

And I would also have a scene at the start with the cops cleaning up after Batman - so we have the presence of Batman from the beginning.

Great ideas!

[Joker81]

I realise Burton would have been holding him back for full effect, but one more scene with him during that gap would've been more to my liking.

I often thought that it might have been a good idea to have the Nick and Eddie stuff after the Axis bust. It would establish that time has passed after Axis and a relationship has grown between Bruce and Vicki - while at the same time giving us more of Batman in action.

And I would also have a scene at the start with the cops cleaning up after Batman - so we have the presence of Batman from the beginning.

Interesting Raleagh. As much as I like the format of the film, you're right about a scene between Axis and the muesem.

Can you imagine if it was the Eddie and Nick scene. You could of had them saying:

"Hey man I dont like it up here, after what happened to Jack napier."
"What?"
"The Bat got him"
"A man give me a break will ya he committed suicide"
"Thats not what I heard at all"

Or they could have opened the film with the Jonny Gobbs death!