Batman Returns underrated?

[batass4880]

I personally think the reason why alot of people didn't like Returns was because the final battle was pretty lackluster. It wasn't as long, tough and exciting like the first one. All Batman did was take a cruise down the sewer, take a radio control off his belt, and uppercut the Penguin with his umbrella. That's at least what I've heard from some people I know.

[Dark Knight Detective]

I personally think the reason why alot of people didn't like Returns was because the final battle was pretty lackluster. It wasn't as long, tough and exciting like the first one. All Batman did was take a cruise down the sewer, take a radio control off his belt, and uppercut the Penguin with his umbrella. That's at least what I've heard from some people I know.

What is wrong w/ these people? They obviously can't see a great battle. The final battle was a battle of two men who fought physically & through their respective animals, bats & penguins. It's as simple as that.

[The Dark Knight]

The final battle was a battle of two men who fought physically & through their respective animals, bats & penguins. It's a simple as that.

That is a post of brilliance.

Penguin launched his penguin army onto the town, and then he accidently blew up his lair. Batman's bats then sent Penguin into Max's element, which was toxic waste. Penguin was essentially killed by modern society. It all came together, it's artistic and deep. I don't see anything wrong with it.

[Azrael]

These comments you made about the animal element (literally bats vs. penguins) are very spot on. It's like they both were man-beasts, the one physical, the other masked, and had an army. Totally like a fairy tale.

Batman Returns' climax feels like a climax much more than the train fight in Batman Begins - to me there's a bigger sense of closure to everything that took place. It's a true three act story with the third one being a big face off and catharsis for everyone, like a stage play. Epic and theatrical. Simply great, and Elfman's music for these final scenes (listen to the soft playing of the Catwoman theme when Batman and Catwoman unmask, or when Wayne finds the kitty) is IMO some of the best he wrote (well, after Edward Scissorhands anyway).

[The Dark Knight]

Agreed, it's more of an emotional finale, not a physical one. The music in those moments is proof. Oswald was sent into the sewer as a baby, and he was sent into the sewer again in death. Batman was concerned about the wellbeing of Selina, etc. And Batman should want to fight as less as possible anyway...only when it is totally neccesary IMO.

[Azrael]

Yeah, emotional is the right word. This film still has more in common with Edward Scissorhands than with any "hero film" I recall, and I wouldn't ever call it an "action" film. It was never Burton's intention to make one anyway.

Of course, to be emotional you have to "care" a bit for those characters, the same way you can maybe care for some characters in the fairy tales you heard when you were young. I always cared for the characters in Burton's films anyway.

[GuedesGothamKnight]

Well, I watched Returns last days... and is one of the best superhero movie off all time, IMO. Yeah, it has it problems, but which movie don't have?
It's my second favorite Batman movie. TDK is my fav.

[The Dark Knight]

Having an action-oriented fight scene would have defeated the point. In the end, Returns is not a big blockbuster, with a blockbuster action confrontation. The ending is subversive. And frankly, I found all the talk very, very engaging (and pretty necessary, given the direction the story had taken).

[gordonblu]

Here's my take on Batman Returns.

The first film had the right balance between dark and light, but I thought Batman Returns had a good story that was supressed by it being TOO dark.

Catwoman was pretty good, but there were times I thought she was a little too psychotic. She also had some really stupid lines of dialoguein my opinion.

They were close with the Penguin, but  they lost sight of who the Penguin was in the comics. You want to make him a deformed bird-man? Fine. You want to make his story all about his lost birthright? Perfect? You want to make him overtly sleazy and put him in dingy grey tights with long unwashed hair and rotting teeth? mmmm, pass. In his first appearance in the comics, he is at an art gallery acting is if he was an aristocrat and part of the upper crust.  All this time people(i.e. Dick Grayson) are staring and/or laughing at him. If you combine that with the whole bird-man look from this film(filtered through Batman the Animated Series and with greased, not greasy, hair) ithe character would come across better. His whole motivation for kidnapping all those kids would then be extortion, to regain the birthright denied him by his parents. To me, that would have been perfect!

As far as his thugs go, I can't really picture him with circus thugs. That's more Joker than Penguin. But they had some pretty cool moments in the film and Doug Jones was one of them! Neat!

The best Batmobile is still in this movie.

I think Batman is in it for the proper amount of time, it adds to his mystique.

The biggest positive, at least for me; DANNY ELFMAN! Wooooo!

I think if they tried to lighten up the proceedings just slightly I would give it a higher rating, which is still pretty high to begin with.

[Dark Knight Detective]

Here's my take on Batman Returns.

The first film had the right balance between dark and light, but I thought Batman Returns had a good story that was supressed by it being TOO dark.

Catwoman was pretty good, but there were times I thought she was a little too psychotic. She also had some really stupid lines of dialoguein my opinion.

They were close with the Penguin, but  they lost sight of who the Penguin was in the comics. You want to make him a deformed bird-man? Fine. You want to make his story all about his lost birthright? Perfect? You want to make him overtly sleazy and put him in dingy grey tights with long unwashed hair and rotting teeth? mmmm, pass. In his first appearance in the comics, he is at an art gallery acting is if he was an aristocrat and part of the upper crust.  All this time people(i.e. Dick Grayson) are staring and/or laughing at him. If you combine that with the whole bird-man look from this film(filtered through Batman the Animated Series and with greased, not greasy, hair) ithe character would come across better. His whole motivation for kidnapping all those kids would then be extortion, to regain the birthright denied him by his parents. To me, that would have been perfect!

As far as his thugs go, I can't really picture him with circus thugs. That's more Joker than Penguin. But they had some pretty cool moments in the film and Doug Jones was one of them! Neat!

The best Batmobile is still in this movie.

I think Batman is in it for the proper amount of time, it adds to his mystique.

The biggest positive, at least for me; DANNY ELFMAN! Wooooo!

I think if they tried to lighten up the proceedings just slightly I would give it a higher rating, which is still pretty high to begin with.

This is a good review, although I'm going to have to disagree w/ you about the film's tone (which fits Batman's universe perfectly) the Penguin (this is definitely how he should be), & Catwoman (she was brilliant).