Batman Forever: Virtual Workprint

[The Dark Knight]

One interesting thing isn't the stuff that's been reinstated (although that's nice) but the stuff that's left out. "I'll get drive-thru", "oh no, it's boiling acid", "this'll fix him!", probably other stuff.

I haven't watched the edit for a while, but this would be my only complaint because I'm a completionist. I'd prefer all available content be used, which includes "I'll get drive thru" and everything else. That's how you make something truly definitive. Including something and omitting other things seems counterproductive. I think it should be less about creating a more consistent tone, because the film is what it is. It was either filmed or it wasn't. Get it all out under one masthead, warts and all.

Agreed, the removal of these is possibly based on the personal preference of the editor (I also don't mind about them missing) but maybe what matters at this point is having the most complete and coherent version of the film, not making it "darker" or toning down the goofiness (after all, one of the restored lines - "a little on the ears, Batman" - is the definition of goofy/silly humour).

Exactly. Very good point.

[The Joker]

[Check post #1 in this thread. That link still works.

Ok. Great. 

[Gotham Knight]

This post isn't the time to discuss how I've come around on the various iterations of Batman, but suffice to say my opinions today do not match my views (some of the worse ones are still in the board archives) of yesteryear. I like Batman Forever now.

In the darkest hours of my religious fervor (Burton or death!) I once endorsed a Burtonized fan edit of BF IE the one where Elfman's music is imposed on the film and every joke hacked out of the movie. I have since understood how ludicrous that is. In fact, by and large the some total of BF fan edits have the same issue. They project the idea that the film, when made applicably darker whether in service of fan desire or what was perceived as the original intent of the film (I actually thing these two distinctions are one and the same) was somehow going to drastically improve the picture. The Forever subsection of the fandom has always been curious to me in that respect, and I was never able to truly discern if they really loved the movie or just the potential of the movie. Anyway, the fan edits I've seen always seem to have this wrong headed approach to a film that was made pointedly to, in essence, rebel against Batman Returns, or more aptly, have a bigger, cleaner, more general appeal, which I think BF succeeds at doing in it's theatrical cut.

The theatrical edition is perfectly fine in my eyes and I think its selection, barring a few nagging issues, is a permissible decision for the time that holds up. It's a nice, fun, deft 90's action spectacle that although a little too taut in places, errors on the side of show rather than tell.

And then there is the Virtual Workprint. In concise terms, this is the only fan version of the film I endorse. In fact I would go so far as to say that the WB ought to use it as guide, if indeed a new version of the film were ever considered for re-release. To go even further, this version might just need a studio level pass, an upgrade if you will, of the technical aspects, and then you could release this version relatively unaltered.

And controversial opinion incoming, I think the Virtual Workprint is likely to blow away the supposed 160 minute cut, if indeed it exists.  Let me explain...

Essentially, what the VWP version does, is incorporate scenes that accentuate and emphasize the themes and intent of the film, which is why I consider it the purest take. It takes what is implicit in the theatrical version and makes it explicit, in fact, declares it out loud. Some may consider that a fopaux. I wouldn't necessarily argue otherwise, which is very likely why those scenes were excised. A case can be made either way, but if you are dead set on expanding the film, the VWP is the way to go because not only does its extensions elucidate what might have been lost on some of the audience, it helps to firmly supplant Val Kilmer into the role, restructure the first act (my favorite aspect), and (this is where I'm going with this) it looks as though it has been through a good editing pass that's letting a little more exposition/characterization get by.

Based on what we know, the 160 minute cut (2 hours and 40 minutes!? Does Batman Forever strike you as a film that needs 3 hours to get its point across? Are you kidding?) looks to me like something that potentially has more in common with the TV edit they put together of Superman that runs 3 hours. Or as I like to call it Superman the Movie: The Version That Has Never Seen an Editor! I know a lot of people have their reasons for being loyal to this version but IMO it stinks. Every exchange that needs distillation, every lingering bookend shot, every sequence that is needless protracted (Lord Lord does that helicopter take an hour and half to land on the helipad or what!?), everything about its long, sprawling, languid runtime relegates it to fan curiosity, not a movie. I think that's what the 160 minute BF is; a complete as possible version of the work that has less to do with "restoring an intent" that was never bastardized in the first place, and more to do with assembling the picture in a complete form so the editor can go to work. It is not supposed to see the light of day.

I know this was, like a novel length post just to say Virtual Workprint is Uber Pwnage, yo, but I just had some thoughts.

[eledoremassis02]

I would be 100% pleased if we got the "Virtual Workprint" In HD on an official release. The Redbook edition never did it for me, but this one was so well put together. I do think at the very least, I wouldnt mind seeing the unreleased deleted scenes (and even outtakes) on said release. But the deleted scenes that were added and the fixed scene order makes a WORLD of a difference. It's a much more balanced film.

[Silver Nemesis]

I downloaded this edit when it was first posted and have watched it every year since. I've seen the theatrical cut two or three times over the past decade, but I generally stick with the VW these days, which has probably prejudiced my view in the movie's favour.

I only have two criticisms. One is that I wish the "Holy rusted metal!" line had been left in. I'm happy with the excision of the other goofy lines, and in some cases I think the edits make the film funnier (for example, I find Batman's silent response to Alfred's sandwich question more amusing than his "I'll get drive through" line in the theatrical cut). But I'd have preferred it if that particular line had been left in.

The other issue is more substantial, and that's the absence of Bruce's childhood POV shot when he reads his father's journal during the funeral wake. The original plan was that Bruce reads only part of the final entry when he's a kid: "Bruce insists on seeing a movie tonight..." This is why he blames himself for his parents' deaths, believing that they wouldn't have gone to the cinema that night if he hadn't asked them to. Later, as an adult, he reads the full entry and realises they were going to go to the cinema anyway, so it's not his fault. In order for the payoff in the Batcave to make sense, it really needs the earlier shot reinstated. But since WB has never released the extended version of the wake scene, there's not much anyone can do about it. Not unless someone has the digital skills to recreate the missing shot using the POV shot from the Batcave scene.

On the subject of fan edits, it's worth mentioning that Schumacher was aware of the Red Book Edition, and although he hadn't seen it he did give his blessing to the concept during a 2015 interview with Mark Hughes for Forbes:

Q: I'm wondering if you've seen something. There is an alternate version of the film, known as Batman Forever: Red Book Edition, where an editor with tremendous skills -- nobody knows who, it was done anonymously -- took the deleted scenes, and took the film and put it all back together and made a few little edits here and there to try to create the film that you've talked about wanting to have made over the years, something more serious and a little darker. It's a tremendous accomplishment, and even many people who criticized the theatrical release saw this version and loved it. It won the film many new fans, in other words. Have you seen this unofficial fan-edited Red Book Edition?

JS: No... Can I see it? Is there any way I can thank the editor? You can certainly put a thank you from me, for loving it enough to do that and taking such care!

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markhughes/2015/06/26/interview-joel-schumacher-talks-batman-forever-legacy/#4a8afe8050d6

So I don't think Joel would have been opposed to a similar edit receiving an official release. In fact he'd most likely have supported it.

[eledoremassis02]

[The Laughing Fish]

The official TNTDrama Twitter page tweeted the #ReleaseTheSchumacherCut hashtag out of support, in a day when the hashtag got over 10k+ and trended on Twitter.



Source: https://twitter.com/tntdrama/status/1287901347027664896

The Snyder cut started a revolution all right. 

I think the wider public has a better chance of seeing David Ayer's real cut of Suicide Squad than seeing a director's cut of BF.

[thecolorsblend]

If they can find a way to release it, I'm pre-ordering. I never pre-order. But I'm prepared to pre-order that.

[The Laughing Fish]

Kevin Conroy has called for the release of the director's cut, via the paid Q&A site Cameo.com.

https://www.twitter.com/CutSchumacher/status/1294790865538494464

[Wayne49]

During this pandemic, it seems going into the vaults to pull out director cuts of popular films would be a no-brainer to generate income where actors are not needed. It would be interesting not only to see BF, but honestly to see if there was a different cut available for B&R. With Schumacher gone now, it likely wouldn't be considered his vision though. As much as he felt inclined to apologize for it, I gotta believe had he been given the green light to re-edit it and add footage left out, it would register entirely different. A missed opportunity.