Batman Returns observations

[The Laughing Fish]

Am I looking for the hidden novel that doesn't exist? Perhaps. But doesn't it strike you as interesting that you can see Bruce much clearer without the eye makeup before he's tearing it off? I think Burton was trying to illustrate Bruce Wayne breaking free from that image. It was symbolic of Bruce letting go of Batman. He had to transform under the mask before he took the mask off. I think if we use Laughing Fish' perspective of a cinematic expression to capture that precise moment, then we have to assume Burton would want to embellish it with his own form of symbolism to underscore the transition. Of all the notions offered about this moment, I think the idea it was actually just a continuity error (as I once thought) appears more and more to be the least likely assessment.

Thanks for the appraisal Wayne. Likewise, you have raised an insightful point that might explain Burton's logic in capturing Batman without the eye make-up.

Perhaps Burton thought it would've been very awkward to cut the focus away from Batman when he's about to tear off his mark for the sake of avoiding a continuity error. He must've wanted the audience to witness Batman fully unmask himself to convey the emotion he had felt in that scene, to see him struggle a little and use his strength, to signal how much Bruce would sacrifice for Selina. Cutting away for a split second might've interrupted the scene and probably risk losing the feeling in translation. That could definitely explain why Burton must've disregarded that continuity detail, the emotion mattered much more.

[Silver Nemesis]

But when we look at this unmasking as a cinematic jolt, it takes me back to the reasoning Burton used to remove the black makeup around his eyes. There has to be an intended purpose if the emotional dials are turned up for this moment. That's not something you can miss when they're lighting the scene and getting Keaton into costume for that moment. The makeup artist would clearly be on the set to apply the makeup. So Burton had to intervene and say, " We're shooting this without the eye makeup."

So what was Burton conveying at this moment that everyone could clearly see? My thinking has evolved into the belief that maybe this was emblematic of the allusions surrounding the Batman character. If Bruce Wayne was coming to grips with his own allusions of Batman, maybe Burton was asking the audience to drop their allusions about what they see as well. The eye makeup is a cinematic allusion. It's never discussed, never shown being applied, nor suggested it even exists. Perhaps Burton was asking everyone to accept that moment so the audience could walk in Bruce's shoes and just be him coming out from under that mask with no allusions about what we thought we saw when it was on.

Am I looking for the hidden novel that doesn't exist? Perhaps. But doesn't it strike you as interesting that you can see Bruce much clearer without the eye makeup before he's tearing it off? I think Burton was trying to illustrate Bruce Wayne breaking free from that image. It was symbolic of Bruce letting go of Batman. He had to transform under the mask before he took the mask off. I think if we use Laughing Fish' perspective of a cinematic expression to capture that precise moment, then we have to assume Burton would want to embellish it with his own form of symbolism to underscore the transition. Of all the notions offered about this moment, I think the idea it was actually just a continuity error (as I once thought) appears more and more to be the least likely assessment.

I never regarded the make-up discrepancy as anything more than a goof, but I suppose there could be more to it than that. Remember the Joker's line in the previous film:

"I have taken off my make-up. Let's see if you can take off yours."

As it happens, Bruce couldn't take off his make-up in the 1989 film. He had the opportunity to do so when Vicki asked him to put aside his crusade, but instead he chose to suit up and fight the Joker. By the end of Batman Returns, he's seen a new exit on the horizon. Like an addict transferring his dependency from one substance to another (or, as in this case, transferring it from a chemical to a person), he's willing to quit being Batman as long as Selina joins him. When he takes off his mask, he doesn't remove it gracefully; he tears it violently. He's struggling to free himself from his compulsion, his addiction, his curse. But he needs her to walk the path with him. Bruce is only finally free of that curse at the end of Batman Forever, at which point his crusade becomes a choice instead of a compulsion. But in Batman Returns, he's still very much a prisoner of the bat.

Perhaps the clean area surrounding his eyes symbolises his clarity of vision upon perceiving a way out of his self-destructive cycle. Or maybe it really is just a goof. Either way, it makes for an interesting topic of discussion.

[The Laughing Fish]

Look at this scene again, and notice how Bruce is irritated at how the newspapers are quick to label a Batman a failure after his fight with Catwoman, and gloss over the good he has done. All because she got away with blowing up one of Shreck's stores. Yet again it reminds me how the media is an industry which supports the mentality of "what have you done for me lately", for the sake of getting headlines.

As far as I can remember, I think only Donner's Superman is the only movie where the media hails the hero with utmost respect and awe. The media in BR, as I already mentioned, was quick to dismiss Batman and got manipulated by the Penguin and Shreck. Jonah Jameson, true to the character, tried to slander Spider-Man whenever he could in the Raimi films. BvS had the media, including the Daily Planet, making negative speculations that fueled people's paranoia and doubt in Superman. Even the Fantastic Four in Rise of the Silver Surfer had to deal with a lot of gossip, if I recall correctly.

[Catwoman]

Look at this scene again, and notice how Bruce is irritated at how the newspapers are quick to label a Batman a failure after his fight with Catwoman, and gloss over the good he has done. All because she got away with blowing up one of Shreck's stores. Yet again it reminds me how the media is an industry which supports the mentality of "what have you done for me lately", for the sake of getting headlines.

Good fictional example of one of the (many) reasons I hate the news media.

[The Laughing Fish]

Good fictional example of one of the (many) reasons I hate the news media.

Indeed. Even going so far to insult a woman for speculating her weight, haha. The Burton films really loved to joke how women get annoyed if you mention anything about their weight, i.e. Batman quipping to Vicki Vale "you weigh a little more than a hundred and eight".

Technically, you could say the deleted scenes of a Gotham City news broadcast calling for Batman to retire in Batman Forever is another good example of the media dragging the hero's name through the mud.

[thecolorsblend]

Look at this scene again, and notice how Bruce is irritated at how the newspapers are quick to label a Batman a failure after his fight with Catwoman, and gloss over the good he has done. All because she got away with blowing up one of Shreck's stores. Yet again it reminds me how the media is an industry which supports the mentality of "what have you done for me lately", for the sake of getting headlines.

As far as I can remember, I think only Donner's Superman is the only movie where the media hails the hero with utmost respect and awe. The media in BR, as I already mentioned, was quick to dismiss Batman and got manipulated by the Penguin and Shreck.

News media in Schumacher's movie were pretty positive about Batman. What stands out is that moment in Batman Forever when a newscaster voice over says something like "Despite a valiant effort by Batman, Harvey Two-Face got away" and blah blah blah. A pretty stark change from "Batman Blows It".

Even news media in B89 aren't sure what to make of Batman. They spread rumors about him (the scene where the Joker smashes the TV), they cast doubt on whose side he's one ("Friend? Or foe?") and so forth. By the time Schumacher took over, I guess he figured Batman should have a warmer relationship with the news media.

[Catwoman]

Good fictional example of one of the (many) reasons I hate the news media.

Indeed. Even going so far to insult a woman for speculating her weight, haha. The Burton films really loved to joke how women get annoyed if you mention anything about their weight, i.e. Batman quipping to Vicki Vale "you weigh a little more than a hundred and eight".

I make the same face Selina did. lol.

[The Laughing Fish]

I posted this video in its own thread once, but I think it's just as relevant if I share it here. It's a shot-by-shot comparison of Selina's mundane life coming back home from work compared to her nervous breakdown after "surviving" Shreck's attempted murder.



When Selina has that breakdown, she returns home as if she was brought back to life like a zombie. Pale and dazzed, slowly brewing with anger. Look at how in the first visit back home she tolerates certain social norms as part of a typical life for a working woman, i.e. demanding mother, a Shreck store advertisement of a perfume product (which added further insult to injury), and how she snaps with rage and begins to get rid of every innocent part of her life. In a twisted way, this was a coming-of-age moment for her. She not only sheds away her meek and shy personality, she destroys all her toys, dollhouse and photos - all of her childhood innocence is coming to an end. You could compare her stitching up the catsuit that resembles like an S&M bondage suit as a teenager looking to rebel against society. And she does so, starting with emasculating men whenever she can, taunting women for their cowardice.

I wouldn't be surprised if people wondered what were the neighbours doing when Selina was trashing her place. I have an explanation for this. The people of Gotham City in the Burton films are pretty self-absorbed, not unlike in real life where people will likely to try to avoid getting involved if they see a domestic disturbance or somebody losing their minds as Selina did. After all, if they were easily duped by the mass-murdering Joker to a parade showering with free money, and later got manipulated by Shreck and Penguin into a campaign that would benefit them and frame the heroic Batman, is it really surprising nobody would pay much attention if a crime or a mental breakdown was taking place? Metaphorically speaking, I'd say the "abandoned" apartment block reflects how broken down and lonely Selina Kyle has become.

[Catwoman]

Part of my love for her is having a similar "coming of age" moment and her transformation to Catwoman. Wasn't quite as violent or destructive but the feelings were the same as I underwent my own transformation. Into what, I'm still not sure. That scene is the second most intense for me internally because of those experiences. Little boys could never understand.

I think that's why it's still my favorite movie, far beyond just a general love of the Bat and the Cat.

[The Laughing Fish]

Part of my love for her is having a similar "coming of age" moment and her transformation to Catwoman. Wasn't quite as violent or destructive but the feelings were the same as I underwent my own transformation. Into what, I'm still not sure. That scene is the second most intense for me internally because of those experiences. Little boys could never understand.

I think that's why it's still my favorite movie, far beyond just a general love of the Bat and the Cat.

Try telling the Russo brothers that DC characters can be relatable, because today they came out saying the opposite, due to the characters "having godlike powers". Now to be fair, I haven't bothered reading any of the articles because it could be clickbait trash for all I know. But assuming if they said it in that context, I think they should take a look at their shoddy treatment of the heroes in Avengers: Infinity War. Turning Bruce Banner/Hulk into a buffoon and Spider-Man into a useless pop-culture referencing jackass isn't what I call "relatable". Don't get me started on Star-Lord, Drax and Iron Man, I'm so sick of those wankers.

/rant