Batman Returns observations

[Azrael]

This is Burton's Wayne Manor in Batman Returns.

http://www.batmanmovieonline.com/gallery.php?showpicture=2188

Can you imagine Thomas and Martha Wayne being buried on those grounds?

Nice pic. With that kind of setting, one can imagine them walking around at night.

[The Dark Knight]

In the final draft of Daniel Waters' script, the one with the revisions by Wesley Strick, Shreck originally says "You're not just saving one life, you're saving a city and its way of life". Now, this is hilarious. Because when Shreck notices Batman swoop down from the roof, he automatically think he's going to be saved from Catwoman. As soon as Batman lands, he's tries to convince Batman even more as to why saving him is a good idea. But before he can finish his statement, he's thrown to the side and rejected. Don't expect anything, folks!

[The Dark Knight]

Flipped through Batman Returns just then. Had another one of these observations, this time during the Penguin's sabotaged speech, towards the end of the film. As the crowd start hurling abuse and throwing tomatoes and eggs, there's an overhead type shot - and it shows the mess on the ground, the Penguin standing there and his campaign slogan "Cobblepot can clean it up". Intentional or not, I found it rather amusing and ironic.

[KeatonisBatman]

In the final draft of Daniel Waters' script, the one with the revisions by Wesley Strick, Shreck originally says "You're not just saving one life, you're saving a city and its way of life". Now, this is hilarious. As soon as Batman lands, he's tries to convince Batman even more as to why saving him is a good idea. But before he can finish his statement, he's thrown to the side and rejected. Don't expect anything, folks!

I love that Batman shoves him in the face... epic moment.  It's interesting to know what that line was supposed to be... I always wondered what he was going to say.

[Silver Nemesis]

Here's an amusing detail I never noticed before now. During the scene where Bruce asks Selina out, look in the background to the left of the frame and you can see a group of people trying to show the Ice Princess how to press the tree lighting button. The shot is filmed mostly in shallow focus, but it racks focus to the background when Alfred honks the car horn. For a brief moment you can see how ticked off the Ice Princess looks.

Here it is in motion, from around the 1:45 mark.

It's a nice setup for the later scene where she's going over the procedure in her dressing room.

[thecolorsblend]

Heh, never noticed that before. It kind of speaks to how big a ditz the Ice Princess was. Nice attention to detail there...

[Wayne49]

What a great catch! LOL! Never noticed that before. You know the one thing that always puzzled me about the ending with Shrek is why Batman tells him he's going to jail, but then reveals his identity in front of him. Doesn't that kind of give Shrek leverage at that moment and wouldn't Bruce have understood that before taking his mask off? Now of course, Shrek is killed, but that's not the reasoning Batman is using before that happens. Just curious what he thought the outcome was going to be. Did he believe he was retiring as Batman if Selina had said yes?

[Silver Nemesis]

I've often wondered about that myself. The instant he revealed his identity in front of Shreck, there was no going back. Either Shreck had to die – and Batman clearly didn't intend for that to happen – or else Bruce and Selina would have had to leave Gotham and assume new identities. There was no way Shreck wouldn't exploit the knowledge of Batman's true identity. The instant Max reached jail, Gotham's entire criminal fraternity would've known who the Dark Knight really was. That or Max would've used the information at a later time to get even, a la Wilson Fisk. Either way, the security of Batman's operation was compromised (again).

I imagine Bruce had a contingency in place for such an eventuality. He probably had money and false identities stashed away somewhere for him and Selina. He'd also need an escape route handy so the two of them could sneak out of Gotham and lay low in his European safe house. The safe house itself was probably located somewhere peaceful and picturesque. Somewhere like Florence...

[The Laughing Fish]

You know the one thing that always puzzled me about the ending with Shrek is why Batman tells him he's going to jail, but then reveals his identity in front of him. Doesn't that kind of give Shrek leverage at that moment and wouldn't Bruce have understood that before taking his mask off? Now of course, Shrek is killed, but that's not the reasoning Batman is using before that happens. Just curious what he thought the outcome was going to be. Did he believe he was retiring as Batman if Selina had said yes?

I believe that scene was intended to be emotional rather than logical. This was Batman at his most vulnerable moment when he knew that the romance he was beginning with Catwoman was about to slip away as he sees her consumed with self-destructive revenge. Removing his mask and offering Selina the chance of going home together lead me to believe he found a kindred spirit: as Bruce and Selina were both lonely, psychologically damaged people with a strong sense of duality. Thematically, Bruce had a deeper connection than Vicki Vale. To me, this was his way of saying "I'd sacrifice everything just to be with you".

One can debate whether or not this romance was believable, but it does play beautifully with the film ending on a bittersweet note as he saves Gotham, but with a broken heart.

The only negative to this is not only does Batman's emotions blind him from logic, he never realises how his own desire for revenge against Joker had consumed him too. Which is why nowadays, I realise Batman Forever doesn't get enough credit for using that theme when he tries to dissuade Dick from taking revenge against Two-Face.

[Wayne49]

Great posts, Silver Nemesis and Laughing Fish. This is why I enjoy this discussion group so much. We can take one scene and break it down into thoughtful examination about intent versus likely outcome if we follow the script from a literal stance. This is why I love the character of Batman so much, because he is truly a concept that lends ever fiber of his being to the cinematic experience. Reality be damned.

Laughing Fish I think you make a strong argument for the intended reaction to this scene. From a plotting standpoint, it does stand on it's a head a bit, but from an emotional perspective, it's one of the most iconic and riveting moments in Batman's cinematic history. However, as Silver Nemesis points out, Bruce must of had a 'Plan B" firmly in place to drop his guise as Batman in public. But it also reveals the quiet desperation Bruce had been living in trying to achieve balance in his life. I think he believed that Catwoman offered him an alternative to being Batman because he could finally put his demons to bed if he had someone who could understand what it felt like to stand in his shoes.

But when we look at this unmasking as a cinematic jolt, it takes me back to the reasoning Burton used to remove the black makeup around his eyes. There has to be an intended purpose if the emotional dials are turned up for this moment. That's not something you can miss when they're lighting the scene and getting Keaton into costume for that moment. The makeup artist would clearly be on the set to apply the makeup. So Burton had to intervene and say, " We're shooting this without the eye makeup."

So what was Burton conveying at this moment that everyone could clearly see? My thinking has evolved into the belief that maybe this was emblematic of the allusions surrounding the Batman character. If Bruce Wayne was coming to grips with his own allusions of Batman, maybe Burton was asking the audience to drop their allusions about what they see as well. The eye makeup is a cinematic allusion. It's never discussed, never shown being applied, nor suggested it even exists. Perhaps Burton was asking everyone to accept that moment so the audience could walk in Bruce's shoes and just be him coming out from under that mask with no allusions about what we thought we saw when it was on.

Am I looking for the hidden novel that doesn't exist? Perhaps. But doesn't it strike you as interesting that you can see Bruce much clearer without the eye makeup before he's tearing it off? I think Burton was trying to illustrate Bruce Wayne breaking free from that image. It was symbolic of Bruce letting go of Batman. He had to transform under the mask before he took the mask off. I think if we use Laughing Fish' perspective of a cinematic expression to capture that precise moment, then we have to assume Burton would want to embellish it with his own form of symbolism to underscore the transition. Of all the notions offered about this moment, I think the idea it was actually just a continuity error (as I once thought) appears more and more to be the least likely assessment.